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VVCS De-Pin

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2022 frontier battery vccm volts
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#42 ·
GreyFox said:
@estunum
Thanks for posting all this valuable information. While some may not care, notice, or appreciate the info and effort...I do (y)
Thanks ;)✌
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Haha of course! I’m no expert but try to find the answer to things because I may run across it one day. This whole VVCS thing is interesting for sure. I’m actually driving right now as passenger in my truck and voltage has lived between 12,5 and 12.8 the last 30 minutes. Have seen it dip as low as 12.2

Image
 
#44 ·
estunum said:
Haha of course! I’m no expert but try to find the answer to things because I may run across it one day. This whole VVCS thing is interesting for sure. I’m actually driving right now as passenger in my truck and voltage has lived between 12,5 and 12.8 the last 30 minutes. Have seen it dip as low as 12.2

View attachment 363640
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Do you have your VVCS unplugged? 12.6 is low for charging unless you have the VVCS still plugged in??
 
#45 ·
GreyFox said:
Do you have your VVCS unplugged? 12.6 is low for charging unless you have the VVCS still plugged in??
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It's still plugged in, haven't touched it. I'm very undecided on what to do because it doesn't really matter right now, but I will be adding accessories and will be very important then. I do want a dual battery set up for sure, and I do think I'll be pulling the trigger on a DC to DC charger so this variable voltage thing won't even matter. But do I really want to spend that amount of money when I can just unplug the damn thing for free? The big benefit of the DC to DC is that it maintains the batteries better, rather than sending full charge 100% of the time. It's smarter that the smart alternator.

I do however want to graph this out to visualize what is happening. Is there some OBD2 contraption that can monitor battery voltage over a period of time? I also want to monitor the RPMs and speed. Would be ideal if said contraption can graph all 3 in a single graph, but if it can at least do them individually I can combine them later. I'd like to be able to post that graph here and then I unplug the whole thing and do the same trip. Maybe take it a step further and just cut or un pin the one cable and see what these 3 scenarios look like. I know none of this will be new, we know what the VVCS is doing, but I'm a visual person and would like to see what it's doing throughout a trip. If nothing else just because I like graphs 🤣
 
#46 ·
I know others in the 2nd gen have done the dual battery version. There are other posts regarding the VVCS and what needs to be done for a dual battery set up.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Upon further digging, it seems that for 2023, there might be 2 possible methods to disable VVCS. Personally, it seems like #2 would be the best solution, as that is only sending a PWM signal TO the alternator, and is a lone single wire; and hopefully the least/no chance of throwing error codes.

#1 - Depin/disconnect (PIN 4) the battery sensor to ecm connection. See image.



#2 - Remove the connection between ECM and alternator. According to the manual, in the absence of the PWM signal, "the generator/alternator performs the normal power operation" See images below.





 
#50 ·
estunum said:
I would look back at my wiring diagram for the charging system on the 3rd gen, because that plug you pulled out doesn't look right. This is what I found...

So this is the IPDM layout for a 3rd gen, specifically a 2022.

View attachment 363562

The plug you pulled out looks to be E122. I rotated the image to match your photo, but this is the engine layout I posted earlier with E122 highlighted...

View attachment 363563

Here are the connector specs along with the wire colors that match your photo, none of them seem to be related to the battery? Definitely not yellow.

View attachment 363565

So I looked up what @Skibane posted to see if I could cross reference and find the IPDM layout of a 2019. Rotated to match his photo and conveniently that connector is also E122...

View attachment 363567

The wires for that E122 is as follows:

View attachment 363568
View attachment 363569

So that yellow is ALT-C CONT and went looking for it on the 3rd gen an didn't have any luck. So I looked up the charging system of a gen 2...

View attachment 363570

So here you can clearly see that the IPDM in the system, but isn't on the 3rd gen.

Here's the charging system of a 3rd gen again just to compare these next to each other. If you don't want to depin or cut at the terminal, the IPDM isn't it.

View attachment 363571
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Audisthesia said:
Haven't had time to look for that wire to alternator yet, but I monitored my voltage, sits 13.4-13.8 for two 20 mile drives today with everything connected.
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Any updates on this? On the other VVCS thread, a member did the fourth pin/wire removal off the negative battery terminal sensor plug and he seemed to get a little better charging reading and consistent…

3rd Gen Variable Voltage Charge System (VVCS) aka...
 
#51 ·
Couple of points in confusion here.

Ipdm is not used in this charging system 2020 and newer.

Pwm signal is only from ipdm to alternator, and only 2019 and older.

Removing pwm signal is how the pre 2020's were disabling the vvcs.

The 2020 and above use lin bus to communicate between ecm and alternator. It will trip an error to remove this connection.

2020 and above will also store codes without a mil lamp if you disable the current sensor.

There is no information on how the 2020 and above alternator will work without ecu communication over the lin bus.

The 2019 and older would go into the default voltage control like the old dumb alternators when it did not get the pwm signal from the ipdm.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Audisthesia said:
So what is the single wire going to the alternator on a 2023 (not from the battery to ipdm) Pwm or Lin? Or do we even know.
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According to schematics, it appears to be LIN.

Image


So my question would be if one disconnects the LIN from the alternator, no MIL is indicated on dash (which is fine), but it does throw a code?? Is that a code that only Nissan/Consult will read or is this a PCM/OBD type code that will cause for concern? Also, will the alternator go into "dumb" mode and just provide full charge?

I would think Nissan has a work around for this, especially for the customers that travel less than 8 miles per day where the charging system does not fully charge the batteries. Techs disabled the VVCS for these certain customers in the past, so there should still be a way of doing this on the newer vehicle's ???

Excuse me if I'm repeating things...I'm jumping back and fourth between two threads on CF about this, and the Nicoclub forum about the same issue :p
 
#56 ·
GreyFox said:
So my question would be if one disconnects the LIN from the alternator, no MIL is indicated on dash (which is fine), but it does throw a code?? Is that a code that only Nissan/Consult will read or is this a PCM/OBD type code that will cause for concern? Also, will the alternator go into "dumb" mode and just provide full charge?

I would think Nissan has a work around for this, especially for the customers that travel less than 8 miles per day where the charging system does not fully charge the batteries. Techs disabled the VVCS for these certain customers in the past, so there should still be a way of doing this on the newer vehicle's ???

Excuse me if I'm repeating things...I'm jumping back and fourth between two threads on CF about this, and the Nicoclub forum about the same issue :p
Click to expand...
from your other post you already know the answer on disconnecting the Lin Bus. Also the past is the past and has no bearing on 2020 and newer vvcs.

Okay, bad news first, the alternators on D41's are the LIN type. You can't disconnect the comm line because you'll get Merry Christmas on the dashboard.

messing with the lin bus is a dry hole at this point and messing with the current sensor will flag errors but no mil. it also does not seem to get the alternator to max charge.

to get max charge it might be possible to trick the ecu with a voltage divider circuit to provide the ecu with the correct voltage to go into max charging mode.
 
#57 ·
This "voltage divider circuit"...what does that entail? :unsure:

Also update from Nico Club forum:

"It isn't something we've come up against with D41's yet, although it's been very common on '17-up Armadas. I really don't see any reason not to snip the Pink sensor wire, which should simply force the ECM to regulate using voltage like a conventional regulator. So it should have the same effect as snipping the wire on a PWM setup, with the exception that you'll get a P155x code. You'll know why that's there, so I'd say just ignore it."
 
#58 ·
Looking at the error codes, the ecm expects from the battery current sensor a voltage above.22v and below 5.06v on the battery current sense line (E161pin 4).

You need to provide the correct voltage for max charge between those 2 values (not sure without testing) back to the ecu on the wire from pin 4. To get the voltage correct it's possible to use 2 resistors one each run from the 5v and the ground on E161 such that the middle point between the 2 resistors is the voltage you want.

This is in simple terms in practice it is a little more complex. For example if the resistors are to small in value you could smoke the ecu or burn up the resistors.

 
#59 ·
maineiac said:
Looking at the error codes, the ecm expects from the battery current sensor a voltage above.22v and below 5.06v on the battery current sense line (E161pin 4).

You need to provide the correct voltage for max charge between those 2 values (not sure without testing) back to the ecu on the wire from pin 4. To get the voltage correct it's possible to use 2 resistors one each run from the 5v and the ground on E161 such that the middle point between the 2 resistors is the voltage you want.

This is in simple terms in practice it is a little more complex. For example if the resistors are to small in value you could smoke the ecu or burn up the resistors.

Click to expand...
Interesting, but a little too complex for me. I haven't done Calculus for many years :ROFLMAO: I'll stick to cutting the pink wire route at this stage in my research. I would prefer to de-pin the wire if I could figure out that stupid plugs locking mechanism?? I was able to slide the white locking part "partially out". Not sure if it is meant to come out all the way, be a one time locking piece, or what? I may just go few inches down the wire loom line and snip it down there and put two connectors on the ends should I ever need to visit the dealer and need to have it reconnected? Still debating.

@JVRaley, how has the charging and voltage readings been since you did the snip? Everything seem to be running ok and getting a better charge? I know you mentioned you were adding a second battery to the bed.
 
#60 ·
GreyFox said:
@JVRaley, how has the charging and voltage readings been since you did the snip? Everything seem to be running ok and getting a better charge?
Click to expand...
14.2-14.3v, same as it was yesterday on the other thread.
 
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