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Discussion Starter #41
Great points. Page 9-28 in the 2012 manual states a maximum tongue weight of 630# for a CC, V6, 2WD. Maximum frontal area of the trailer should be less than 60 sq ft. Even at 700# you are stiill over the weight Nissan recommends by about 10%. What is the frontal area of the trailer?
Conservative number At best.
It did great
I don't live by what people tell me, I use the information and work with the best ability of what I need and mods to reduce my risk.
Did well driving, steep mountains, would not want to do with this truck, if so, would go slower.
I guess never been good about chatting all day and night about it, get in and and try it. It not an every weekend thing or me, still have tha toy hauler for sale to the right buyer.
Suspend your thoughts it may not be
Impressed with the frontier and what it offers to date.
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Ditto to what chijusa said!!

In reference to various comments about the use of aftermarket air bags (and helper springs), I believe some misunderstand what they're actually accomplishing by using suspension mods like these. Sure, they can have some positive affect on handling, and certainly the truck *looks* better because it's not sagging as much. But, IMO they do very little to remove or solve the underlying reason they're used in the majority of situations: too much payload (and/or too much tongue weight). In these situations, they perform more of a cosmetic, then functional purpose, and give many a false sense of security. Sure, every time I say this a firestorm erupts. The fact is, air bags and helper springs do nothing to reduce the excessive stress applied to the frame, drivetrain, and axle components when there is too much payload. Got too much payload? Get a bigger truck. Can't afford or don't want a bigger truck? Reduce your payload.

Higher capacity weight distribution (WD) hitches are capable of properly distributing even the abovementioned 1100 lbs. of tongue weight to the front or rear axles. For some, simply leveling the truck visually is fine for their needs; however, I believe it's important to know there's more than just visual dynamics at play. Sure, visual leveling will probably get you close, but ideally you'd first want to determine the front and rear GAWR (gross axle weight rating) for your tow vehicle. The GAWR will dictate what *proportion* of the tongue weight should be distributed to the front and rear axles by the WD hitch (obviously a scale would be necessary to do this accurately).

In closing, this thread includes a lot of discussion about huge amounts of tongue weight--some as high as 1100 lbs. I can only assume the common theme here is tongue weights involving the use of 2nd gen Nissan Frontiers. Unless something has changed, it's my understanding the maximum rated tongue weight for the V6 2005-2012 Nissan Frontier (with an OEM or aftermarket class III/IV hitch installed) is 500 lbs. without a WD hitch, and 600 lbs., with a WD hitch.

Be safe out there!
I can only speak for a couple guys I know running suspension mods. they are simple to keep the DOT guy from getting suspicious.
Example, One guy I know has a Dodge 2500 flatbed. He put a Dana 80 rear end under it, 1 ton leafs, and airbags. Pulling a gooseneck tandem enclosed trailer. he routinely overloads. He's been pulled over by DOT a couple times because at highway speeds, he looks commercial. no DOT numbers on his truck so his story is "helpin' aunt Martha move" or "hauling scrap pallets home to heat the house" or something. most of the time it goes no further. He had gotten a couple guys that have said "well, lets go ahead and weigh ya anyway". He knows then, its atleast gonna be $500 and two or three hours to get legal.
DOT guys know what an overloaded truck looks like and what to look for if they get a close enough look. its the whole "fool em long enough so they dont look deeper"
I know another guy that hauls lumber. Class 8 rig, 50' spread axle flat bed. When the company buys a new rig, the first thing they do is performance mods. That way they can pull off a stop light at 140K pounds like they were 1/2 that. Just to keep the local DOT guy for questioning why the truck was having such a hard time taking off.
The real benefit of running over weight in a non-commercial setting is its harder on your equipment. you're gonna spend more on repairs. commercially, there is some benefit, but you gotta constantly evaluate. fines are steep.
On the commercial, class 8 rig side, the same trucks are pulling 250K escorted loads that are pulling 80K normal loads. it doesn't wear the rig like it does a pickup. difference is how many axles are in contact with the road so you do less damage to the roads.

basically, what Im saying is it doesn't matter what mods you do to your truck. the only numbers that matter are stamped on a plate on the drivers side door jamb. you could put dana 80 axles under your truck with the appropriate springs, tires, frame mods, whatever, if you get pulled over or have a crash. the scales come out, then the grins and ticket books come out.
 

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I can only speak for a couple guys I know running suspension mods. they are simple to keep the DOT guy from getting suspicious.

. . .

basically, what Im saying is it doesn't matter what mods you do to your truck. the only numbers that matter are stamped on a plate on the drivers side door jamb. you could put dana 80 axles under your truck with the appropriate springs, tires, frame mods, whatever, if you get pulled over or have a crash. the scales come out, then the grins and ticket books come out.
Mathster, your post was an interesting read! Didn't realize there was such a sunny and shady side to the DOT payload issue. Obviously, you speak from first hand experience. Thanks for sharing!
 

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Great points. Page 9-28 in the 2012 manual states a maximum tongue weight of 630# for a CC, V6, 2WD. Maximum frontal area of the trailer should be less than 60 sq ft. Even at 700# you are stiill over the weight Nissan recommends by about 10%. What is the frontal area of the trailer?
Conservative number At best.
It did great
I don't live by what people tell me, I use the information and work with the best ability of what I need and mods to reduce my risk.
Did well driving, steep mountains, would not want to do with this truck, if so, would go slower.
I guess never been good about chatting all day and night about it, get in and and try it. It not an every weekend thing or me, still have tha toy hauler for sale to the right buyer.
Suspend your thoughts it may not be
Impressed with the frontier and what it offers to date.
Next...
smokster, in one of your previous posts you included this pic of your rig. Noticed you have what appears to be four batteries loaded on the front A frame of your trailer. Any particular reason you need that much current/amperage? Each battery weighs approx. 50 lbs. Assuming you're using 12 volt batteries, you could easily reduce your tongue weight by 150 lbs. by using only one battery. If you're using 6 volt batteries, you could still remove two and reduce your tongue weight by 100 lbs.

Just a thought . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #45
We have solar with these batteries and it was great out in the desert.
Already have plans to remove 2 this weekend
They weigh approx 75 ea.
Should bring me down to 600 #. w/ a 1000 # rack
Overall, should be around 5700 pull weight.
Installing a K/N air filter in today, hopefully will help some as well.
Thanks
 

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DOT guys are like any other LEO. they have laws to enforce and they can be selective about how they enforce those laws. They would rather make sure that class 8 rig is legal and up to date on his log book than if Joe's toy hauler is 300 pound over tongue weight. Now if he sees Joe pulling a flatbed with 5 crushed cars on it and hitch is skipping off the ground. Joe and the DOT guy will have a talk.

Oklahoma doesn't have set weigh stations. there are roaming DOT guys and highway patrol will call them in if they need scales.
 

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At the end of the day tow ratings are based on marketing with a bit of real science chucked in. Only when SAE J2807 is finally adopted across the board will we see proper ratings and even then then could downplay a vehicles rating due to a marketing ploy. Don't get me wrong i wouldn't go over the rating I'm just stating the truth about the ratings we have right now.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
 

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At the end of the day tow ratings are based on marketing with a bit of real science chucked in. Only when SAE J2807 is finally adopted across the board will we see proper ratings and even then then could downplay a vehicles rating due to a marketing ploy. Don't get me wrong i wouldn't go over the rating I'm just stating the truth about the ratings we have right now.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
yeah, it ultimately falls on what the data plate on the truck says. that is why a few years back, diesel pickups went to just under 26K GCWR, and now there is the same race with 1/2 ton series trucks.
I mean when it comes to pulling, the equipment is there. its the controlling that is the issue.
 

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07nissan

I have been RVing for 10 years. I understand all about payload, tongue weights, frontal area, tow ratings etc. I know air bags do not increase capacity. Air bags do provide a more stable ride when towing. I mentioned suspension mods because there was no way 1000 pound tongue would only cause a 1" rear sag without some help.
 

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Mathster,

Very informative posts... one reason I chose to get a f350 dually was to never worry about be overweight with ALMOST any rv towable.
 

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Mathster,

Very informative posts... one reason I chose to get a f350 dually was to never worry about be overweight with ALMOST any rv towable.
travel trailers are getting ridiculous these days.
Working in the drilling industry, there are some of the guys that are running 40' gooseneck trailer with 4 slides. I caught a show on RVing, they are now doing verticle slides in addition to sides. I realize it their home most of the time, but for one person, its alot to haul.
 

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Have the 2012 Frontier Crew Cab 4 x 4
I love it so far...
But,
I have a toy hauler that has not been sold quite yet and want to still use it
I would pull about 2 hours or so.

It has a tongue weight of 950 weighing 5000.
I have a weight distribution hitch I used with the f250 previously.

Has anyone used Super Springs Intl. to help with the extra weight distribution above the leaf springs to help with the tongue weight?
Airbags needed?
Suggestions?
Forever optimist...
Thanks in advance
SuperSprings worked great for me but I have only a 400 lb tongue weight.
See post #9 http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f8/supersprings-14652/
:fantastic:
 

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travel trailers are getting ridiculous these days.
Working in the drilling industry, there are some of the guys that are running 40' gooseneck trailer with 4 slides. I caught a show on RVing, they are now doing verticle slides in addition to sides. I realize it their home most of the time, but for one person, its alot to haul.
I agree, the bigger in case moto eliminates the need for accuracy but the costs of fuel, big and ugly, and no where to park with a 350 is not worth it for the benefits of minimalism.
 

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You said the trailer is a toy hauler. The toys go in the back behind the axle. The weight of the toys will reduce tongue weight. Tongue weight is high on the unloaded trailer because without some tongue weight with toys the trailer will wag and want to track backwards. The manufacturer can't have owners getting into wrecks as soon as they hit the highway.

Tt

Edit: I did not realize this thread went on for three pages. I'll leave my rehashed comment up anyhow. Sorry.
 

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Have the 2012 Frontier Crew Cab 4 x 4
I love it so far...
But,
I have a toy hauler that has not been sold quite yet and want to still use it
I would pull about 2 hours or so.

It has a tongue weight of 950 weighing 5000.
I have a weight distribution hitch I used with the f250 previously.

Has anyone used Super Springs Intl. to help with the extra weight distribution above the leaf springs to help with the tongue weight?
Airbags needed?
Suggestions?
Forever optimist...
Thanks in advance
I towed a 6000 pound 24' toy hauler with my 08 Nissan nismo and all i used was the weight distribution hitch and sway bars. Be very careful if at interstate speed because big trucks and even full size pickups coming by will suck you over into them. I have not tried to tow my camper with my pro4x yet.
 
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