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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys first time poster.

I have owned Titans, Versa's and even 370s but i have owned many more Fords. I was already planning on selling my Raptor after driving it one more winter. The Raptor is my 2nd vehicle and i mainly drive it either in winter, on long highway trips or when my other car is in the shop. The plan was to go from March to Oct next year without that payment and get a small truck next fall.

I am around 6 or 7k upside down on my raptor but would be even by spring when i planned to sell it.

Now that you have the setup, i was at the Nissan dealership today looking for the cheapest bare bones Nissan Versa for my son who is in college and I jokingly asked if i would get a better deal if i buy two at once?

Manager said of course. I said well i am 6 or 7k underwater. Can you eat all that and sell me the Pro 4x w premium package for sticker? He wouldn't really be "eating it" as i believe they are unofficially giving around 5k in rebates on 19s right now anyway.

He didn't blink and said he most likely could. He took the mileadge off my Rap and the vin number and said he would call me.

Why would i trade a rap for a Pro 4x?

Well.....my raptor doesn't fit in a parking deck it is too wide and often too tall (depends on where i go). It barely fits in a parking spot (7 inches wider than a standard 150), gets 12 miles per gallon...AVERAGE. If i do 90% highway driving it will creep up to around 13mpg. It is a bad arse truck but around here in the south east, it is too wide to fit down any off road trails (I need to live out west) and is even a PITA just getting by it in the driveway. So given all of this, as i had previously said....im going small next time.

I did cross shop with a 2019 Taco TRD with premium package that was marked down from $39,900 to $36,800 for a $3,100 discount, but i am assuming that is probably their bottom price while the actual price on the Pro 4x will likely be around 30k or 31k considering all the negative he will absorb. And no he wont really be absorbing that as he will turn around and sell the rap for 44k to 45k even with 50k miles on it.

Pros for me (over the Tacoma) Power leather seats. Better sitting position, More tq for city driving, roof rack, cargo rail system, 10 speaker fosgate (that is actually a pretty big win for me) , moon roof, tried and true reliable drive train (also very important, and i hear the Tacos have issues with reliability), cheaper price. Interestingly and contrary to what everyone else seems to say...both myself and my wife thought the pro x4 looked better than the taco (crazy right?)

Cons (over the Tacoma) Lack of LED headlights (my eyes aren't what they used to be and i can see myself running the fogs full time and constantly flipping to bright even when i know it will only be for a few seconds), less HP for highway passing (doubt the Taco advantage is exactly "huge" here) , lack of push button start, slightly worse MPG (this isn't too big a deal for just 1 or 2mpg diff for me) worse resale value (this one might be the biggest deal), older interior, turning radius. Auto-bright and dim headlights (sounds dumb but it is no joke super convienent)

Okay so now that all that is out of the way, i would like to hear your opinions.

There are other cons such as the lack of blind spot and cross traffic which i have owned in other cars and DO NOT CARE about, the things that matter to me are whats above.

I also wouldn't mind cross shopping a Ranger Lariat 4x but no one should buy a 1st or 2nd year ANYTHING from Ford which prob wont fit my time table no matter how you slice it.
 

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I have one that looks just like the one above except no carry rack or sun roof. Its a 2018 . I shopped around and best bang for my buck was the Pro-4X Frontier in the gun metal above. In the mid west they hold their value very well. It was a truck I could also park in my two car garage next to my 1994 Classic Camaro Z28 show car I bought new. I love the truck , very nice looking and rides nice. I was not going to buy something that I could not fit in my garage and keep nice. Im retired and try to plan my trips. I have a friend that bought a 2018 Tacoma , its his 3rd one he's bought, its for his buisiness. He likes it but he thinks mine was a better deal with a higher ground clearence and about $12-$14 ,000 less . He also said it keeps shifting up and down since it has a smaller motor 3.5 when they dropped the 4.0 motor and gave it more gears than his one before. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 

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Welcome!

I say go for it. I just bought the exact same truck in black last week, and I love it. Would have preferred that gray though, I normally hate gray but Nissan's shade is quite appealing!

The headlights get a lot of hate, but I don't think they're that bad. My reaction the first time I drove it at night was essentially "This is what they're complaining about?" Sure, they're not as good as a 2019 LED headlight, and even the halogen headlights on my 2016 Kia are better, but they are on par with the headlights of any other mid 2000s vehicle. In a word, I would describe them as adequate. But the way people talk about them, I was expecting sealed beam levels of light.

Same thing goes for the turning radius. It isn't great, but it's manageable. I tend to park out in BFE anyway though.

Not sure I can even comment on the passing power, as the Frontier is by far the most powerful vehicle I have ever owned! Most of my previous cars have been around 140-160 HP, with varying levels of weight.

Yeah the MPG isn't the greatest, but my aforementioned Kia is great on gas. The Frontier is for getting work done.

Not sure about the auto dim headlights thing. I only recently learned that was even an option, since I've only owned older and/or cheaper cars.

Personally, I like the older interior design. There's something comforting about it I guess, I sat down in the truck and felt immediately at home despite never having been in a Frontier before. I think it was the Steel (gray) interior of the SV model that I first test drove, as it reminded me of the gray interiors of my 90s Mercury Sable and Cutlass Ciera. The Charcoal interior of the PRO-4X is noticeably darker, but still lighter than the all-black interiors found in the typical 2015+ vehicle. And the white-faced gauges just scream 2001 so loudly that it makes me want to start quoting lines from The Fast and the Furious.

Ditto for the lack of push button start, or even a more recent switchblade key. Something about the key and fob combination just takes me back to simpler times in my life. Which probably sounds really weird, but that's my take on it.

The resale value, well that's one thing I can't really argue with. You could put the Toyota badge on a pile of elephant dung and get top dollar for it. It wouldn't matter if the Frontier was twice the truck the Tacoma is, it would still sell for less because that's how the Toyota Tax works. There's a certain class of owner that will only buy a used Toyota and/or Honda, and so those brands are always a safe bet if you like to sell your old vehicle once you get bored with it.
 

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The LED headlight issue has been solved, there's a thread here that goes into great detail about an aftermarket set that works very well in our headlight housing. I have them and love em. One thing that swayed my decision was something you mentioned in the original post.......parking. The Frontier is a hair narrower than the competition so it fits in the narrow spots easily.
You are right about the lack of tech in the Frontier, and that's one reason I bought mine......and also the fact I got a great deal on it.

Sure the resale value takes a hit on these trucks, but the upfront pricing is much lower, so it's a wash in my opinion.
 

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Ima echo the others.

Katana LEDs should solve your headlight issue, your tranny won’t be searching for the right gear like a Toy will, I prefer the “lack of tech” (like push button/remote start, lane asst, etc... we turned off as much of that sh!t as possible in Wifey’s ‘19 Rav4)

And I’m with you & yours... I prefer the look & styling of the Frontier. Toys are being styled all the same by folks that used to play with transformers & have now graduated from design school & all their models look the same... grouchy.

And I’m probably alone here, but Toys feel cheap to me. I sincerely wish my wife would’ve chosen a Rogue over a RAV. I don’t like driving her car at all, so I don’t. Oh, well.

Let us know what you decide.
 

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I was in the same spot as you and I went with a Pro4x and love it. Had a big *** Ran and I loved it but MPG was ****. Could not take some trails due to how wide it was and turning radius. It was was a crew cab with 8 ft bed. There is no turning radius..lol
Parking.. always far from the store or wherever as I could not fit.

Any regrets. Nope. Love my Pro4x. Looked at Tacos, Rangers and all the other mid sized trucks and kept coming back to the Frontier.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks everyone.

Since i didn't OR too much i am thinking the advantages the Raptor has over the Pro 4x are all things i mostly NEVER USED..

Except one....trying to get 3 or 4 feet in the air when i would find a very highly raised paved over ramp to a rail road track and no one around. I might actually miss that but with half the monthly payment, I think i will live (it was a rare event anyway).

Snow traction is always worse in lighter vehicles and since the double thickness frame 6.2 raptor from 2014 was in the F250 weight class, i know snow traction wont be as good in any MID SIZE or light truck.

On the other hand, I live in the south east, snow is something i drive in once or twice a year on trips. And for the off roading i did with my raptor in the east, the vast majority of it was at slower speeds where there would be virtually zero benefit realized by the raptor over the Pro x.

At least, those are some of my thoughts at the moment.
 

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Can't add much to what the others have said. I say go for it. I love my truck. I drove to DE just so I could get a Gun Metallic one. The Tacoma is awful to drive. Test drive them both I think you'll be surprised.

The reliability, simplicity of the powertrain and price are what lead me to the Frontier. The low end torque is great. If you care a lot about new technology and a modern refined interior you may be disappointed. Other than that it's a fantastic truck.
 

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Echo what a lot of other posters have already said. The Nissan frontier Pro 4X is a solid truck. It won’t have all the latest electronics or fancy bells and whistle‘s, but IMHO it has what it needs.

In specific response to your concerns, another poster already mentioned the Katana LED swap outs. I did that as one of the first things on my Pro 4X and I love the light output. It compares favorably to the other family vehicles that have HIDs and out performs the HIDs on an older 2004 Nissan Murano.

On auto dimmable headlamps, I have that on a 2016 Miata and admit I miss that on the Frontier. But the Katana LEDs help make up for that and with the much higher position of the truck, I don’t notice it as much. YMMV.

As far as push button start, keep in mind that with a physical key, you won’t have to worry about forgetting to turn off the truck! This is a very real problem that has killed a few folks who have thought they turned off their cars but left I’m running overnight in attached garages creating a carbon monoxide gas chamber in the house. Not saying you will do that, but it’s a consideration. With every new tech, there are trade-offs. Here is a possible aftermarket option.

On the rest of your list, I think you need to compare what you’re getting versus what you’re not. Before I bought the Frontier, I cross shopped against the Honda Ridgeline, the Ford Ranger, and the Toyota Tacoma. I was looking for the best truck to suit my needs and budget. The Frontier Pro4X fit best. For me, in addition to the huge plus of better pricing, the downsides of a lot of the new tech did not outweigh the upside of reliability, ease-of-use, and bang for the buck. Again, YMMV.

Finally, keep in mind that since the Frontier has been around for a while. In addition to rock solid reliability, you’ll find lots of aftermarket accessories they can help customize the truck to your needs and your preferences.

Good luck and happy shopping!
 

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Does your son want a Versa?

Most all of the cons could be addressed on any Frontier. I'd prefer my son being in a little larger vehicle. If I were in your situation I might get a couple well appointed king cabs in a twofer deal.

It has been a lot of fun helping my son fix up his first vehicle over the last few years. You could do them together!
 

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Does your son want a Versa?
If he's like I was at that age, I was just happy to have a set of wheels!

I drove a lot more back then too, and the horrendous gas mileage of my full size sedan was offset by the cheap gas prices of the time. A Frontier would be cool for a college kid, no doubt, but if I was that age today I'd probably prefer something like a Versa or a Rio that was good on gas and easy to park. But every kid is different, so you do bring up a valid question.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just or good measure i cross shopped a Ranger today. Magnetic XLT with the 302 package (the most you can put on an XLT without jumping to a lariat) and the Fx4.

Pros: Blind spot, cross traffic, bigger Nav, Software control drive modes (grass/mud/snow vs ruts rocks vs normal etc.) Hill assit crawl mode...down AND up (and in reverse). 360 degree sensors. Anti trailer sway, about 4 or 5 more mpg. A bit quiter and sportier to drive on the roads (though some of that could have been the less off road capable tires). Good looking truck as the one i checked out also had the Midnight/Black package which has always looked really good with fords magnetic color. 310lbs of tq! Auto bright/dim headlights!

Cons: The xlt seats are not as good as the Pro 4 x premium. To get the really good seats you gotta buy a Lariat. The standard sound isn't as good as the Fosgate and you have to go to the Lariat to get the B&O system. No roof rack. No track system in bed. About $55 more a month. I actually miss the compass and temp being in the rear view mirror.

I think the wheel base, ground clearance and angles are close enough as to not matter to me and they both have rear lockers.

Ill keep you guys posted.
 

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Just or good measure i cross shopped a Ranger today. Magnetic XLT with the 302 package (the most you can put on an XLT without jumping to a lariat) and the Fx4.
I never did an in-depth comparison to the Ranger, but I did with the Colorado. The Frontier beat the Colorado in every aspect that mattered to me, along with several that didn't. Basically, no matter how I configured both trucks, the Frontier would end up with more features at a lower price point. Ultimately, the transmission complaints steered me away from the Colorado, but part of me still wishes I'd gotten one in orange.

Cross shopping is a smart thing to do though. I was dead set on buying that Colorado but forced myself to look at the other trucks, and I'm glad I did. As soon as I sat down in the Frontier, I knew it was my truck. I tried so hard to not like it, but something about it just really worked for me.
 

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+1 for cross shopping; I was dead set on getting a Tacoma years ago, but after two test drives of two different trucks, I was very disappointed (seating position, lack of power, poor visibility, etc). Did some more research, and now I'm on my 2nd Frontier.

Other points have been covered well enough, so I'll simply touch on the resale value. Yes, the Frontier resale isn't that great. However, one aspect of this I haven't seen mentioned is the advantage of buying used. Both of my Frontiers were bought used with low-miles for a good price. My current Pro-4X w/ luxury package had only ~23,000 miles on it, and I got it for $24,000 (and that is here in Texas where pickups are treated like God's gift to mankind with the sticker price to match).

So, while you may want a 2019, there are some great deals to be had on slightly used models, too. People make fun of the Frontier because "it hasn't changed in 15 years". That's mostly true (the body and drivetrain are unchanged, but they have added other features); however, this can work to your advantage because a recent year model isn't going to be that different from a current year model. To narrow your search window: Backup camera, infotainment system w/ navigation, dual-zone climate control, and a few other things were all added in the last 5 years or so (my first Frontier was a 2012 and had none of this despite also being a Pro-4X w/ luxury package).
 

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Well.....my raptor doesn't fit in a parking deck it is too wide and often too tall (depends on where i go). It barely fits in a parking spot (7 inches wider than a standard 150), gets 12 miles per gallon...AVERAGE. If i do 90% highway driving it will creep up to around 13mpg. It is a bad arse truck but around here in the south east, it is too wide to fit down any off road trails (I need to live out west) and is even a PITA just getting by it in the driveway. So given all of this, as i had previously said....im going small next time.
Fitting down trails and inside a standard residential garage were a big push to me getting a midsize. I got the Frontier to replace my F250, quad, and prevent me from buying a side-by-side. The Frontier definitely isn't stellar at any one category, but it can do everything and not break the bank. I could've gone for an F150 since it technically fits in the garage, but I'd have to walk through the truck to get to the other side. That and those limo-length doors can only open a sliver.

Pros for me (over the Tacoma) Power leather seats. Better sitting position, More tq for city driving, roof rack, cargo rail system, 10 speaker fosgate (that is actually a pretty big win for me) , moon roof, tried and true reliable drive train (also very important, and i hear the Tacos have issues with reliability), cheaper price. Interestingly and contrary to what everyone else seems to say...both myself and my wife thought the pro x4 looked better than the taco (crazy right?)
Seating position was a big one for me. The Tacoma has less vertical cab space, so you sit with your feet in front of you, like a car. The Frontier has seats higher off the floor, like a truck.

Cons (over the Tacoma) Lack of LED headlights (my eyes aren't what they used to be and i can see myself running the fogs full time and constantly flipping to bright even when i know it will only be for a few seconds), less HP for highway passing (doubt the Taco advantage is exactly "huge" here) , lack of push button start, slightly worse MPG (this isn't too big a deal for just 1 or 2mpg diff for me) worse resale value (this one might be the biggest deal), older interior, turning radius. Auto-bright and dim headlights (sounds dumb but it is no joke super convienent)
I prefer the Frontier's VQ40 over the Tacoma's 3.5L. IMO, Toyota neutered the 3.5 in order to achieve certain metrics (fuel economy, emissions etc). The VQ40 makes something like 80% of its torque from 2,500 RPM and makes peak torque of 280 ft/lb at 4,000 RPM. The 3.5L has a more linear torque curve and makes peak torque of 265 ft/lb at 4,600 RPM. Also, the Tacoma seems to want to go to top gear as soon as possible, whereas the Frontier will hold lower gears.

Okay so now that all that is out of the way, i would like to hear your opinions.

There are other cons such as the lack of blind spot and cross traffic which i have owned in other cars and DO NOT CARE about, the things that matter to me are whats above.

I also wouldn't mind cross shopping a Ranger Lariat 4x but no one should buy a 1st or 2nd year ANYTHING from Ford which prob wont fit my time table no matter how you slice it.
I got to go to a press event for the Ranger and also got to take a good look at them an auto show recently. I think Ford rushed the product to market. The instrument cluster displays use the old UI from like a 2010 Ford Flex, and yet the center stack display has SYNC 3. The keypad is a molded-black plastic piece, instead of hidden in the B-pillar. The rear seat is a 100/0 fold, which is unheard of. There's a not-insignificant bump in the rear floor, and some oddly-shaped storage bins under the seat, so the cab space isn't really usable for bulky items.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a die-hard Ford guy and the Frontier is the first non-Ford truck I've owned. I bought the Frontier before the Ranger was on the market and I'm not disappointed. Much like how the '99-'00 Super Duties were okay, but the '01-'04 were improved, I think the Ranger needs to wait until its Minor Model Change (MMC) before it's a decently-competitive product.

I will praise the different driving modes of the Ranger. I thought it was a gimmick, but they do make a difference. Sport mode holds low gears longer, whereas eco mode wants to upshift quickly. Steering feel also changes noticeably. And the trail control is a step above Toyota since it can be set from 0.5mph to 20mph in 0.5mph increments, instead of just 5 arbitrary speeds. I also like how the FX4 Off Road package gives a trimmed front air dam. Even the Z71 Colorado has that freakin' snow plow.

Have you considered the Chevrolet Colorado ZR2? That would be my first choice if I wanted a small off-road-ready pickup. I especially like the front and rear lockers and 4Auto on the ZR2. 4Auto uses a clutch pack in the transfer case, allowing for some slip, so it can be used on dry pavement or in the rain.

Next would be a tossup between the Ranger Lariat FX4 and the Frontier PRO-4X. I'd probably go with the PRO-4X because it's less expensive and has a proven track record. My opinion would probably sway toward the Ranger Lariat, assuming that the interior is improved and it gains 4Auto like the F150 Lariat.
 

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From Ford insiders - current “new” Ranger is based off the Thailand world platform. Next iteration will be a true U.S. design from the ground up in a couple model years.
 

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I had a raptor for about a year and a half and sold it. And I’ve regretted it ever since.

I do love my frontier but the Raptor did everything better and loooked better doing it to.

I was going to sell my frontier but a V8 swap landed in my lap and I did it and sold the raptor and now wish I had at least tried to keep it.
 

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I love my pro 4x. Here’s my two cents though. You may be able to get that new 2019 for around 30k like you said or you can find a great used one and get an even better deal. I bought mine used, one owner, only about a year old and had right around 12.5k miles on it. So it was barely broken in. Thing was in perfect condition. At the time a new 2017 would’ve cost me around 31-36k depending on the dealer. My 2016 was 26.5k. I traded my bike and a little cash and wound up with a loan for like 22k. I owe less than 20 now and I could still sell it for about what I paid for it. So I’m actually on top rather than upside down like you are with the Ford. Here’s the thing though, they haven’t made any major changes since like 2010. I think some of the newer years can support e85 or flex fuel and they changed the style of the wheels. Other than that and maybe a software update on the stereo there’s no difference between a 2010 and a 2019 and everything in between. They’ll make that nice deal with you but honestly I’d look for one a year or two older with low miles and save an extra few grand. Good luck though. If you get one you’ll enjoy it. They are awesome little trucks.
 
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