Settings-amp/hu/components/sub/xover/gain/bb/etc.

5542 Views 31 Replies 5 Participants Last post by SBNFRH86, Jan 21, 2010

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · Jan 13, 2010 (Edited)

I know i been on this topic before...
Can some of the audio experts on here help me please...

In my signature is the list of equipment. What do you think of the following settings. What would you change. Please edit the list. Thanks so much!

1. HEADUNIT
-Max volume-50/62 (80%)
-Sound retriever-OFF
-Loudness-OFF
-Bass boost-OFF
-LPF-125HZ (for Sub)
-HPF-OFF
-Equalizer (final tuning)

2. MONO AMP (for Sub)
-Gain-12 o'clock (50%)
-Bass boost-12 o'clock (50%)
-LPF-125HZ

3. 4-CHANNEL AMP (front/rear components)
FRONT-
-Gain-12 o'clock (50%)
-Bass boost-OFF
-HPF-100HZ
REAR-
-GAIN-10 o'clock (35%)
-Bass boost-OFF
-HPF-75HZ

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ToddG

· #2 · Jan 13, 2010 (Edited)

There is no way anyone could give you the settings you are asking for without being there to hear and adjust in person.

You are going to have to trust your ears on this.
Generically speaking all frequencies should be equally represented.
Your highs, mids and lows should blend together seamlessly.
A big determination of getting that seamless integration is where you have everything crossed over.
I'd cross the sub over lower like 80hz and bring the door speakers down to 80hz as well and see how that sounds.
Sometimes having overlap of frequencies between speakers is good, sometimes it's not.
My system is crossed over at 80hz.
Sub does everything 80hz on down, and the door speakers takes on everything above 80hz.
For my set-up, that works best.
If you have good controls on your head unit, that's where I'd do my crossing over, not at the amp(s).
Reason being is if you run the amp(s) "wide open" so to speak (no filtering) then you can control it all at your finger tips from your listening position and not be crawling around on the floor tweaking little knobs with a screw driver, know what I mean?

Like I said it's tough without being there.
Just experiment and you'll get it.
It usually takes me a couple of weeks of tweaking when I drop a new system in to get it where I like it.

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SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 13, 2010

ToddG said:
There is no way anyone could give you the settings you are asking for without being there to hear and adjust in person.

You are going to have to trust your ears on this.
Generically speaking all frequencies should be equally represented.
Your highs, mids and lows should blend together seamlessly.
A big determination of getting that seamless integration is where you have everything crossed over.
I'd cross the sub over lower like 80hz and bring the door speakers down to 80hz as well and see how that sounds.
Sometimes having overlap of frequencies between speakers is good, sometimes it's not.
My system is crossed over at 80hz.
Sub does everything 80hz on down, and the door speakers takes on everything above 80hz.
For my set-up, that works best.
If you have good controls on your head unit, that's where I'd do my crossing over, not at the amp(s).
Reason being is if you run the amp(s) "wide open" so to speak (no filtering) then you can control it all at your finger tips from your listening position and not be crawling around on the floor tweaking little knobs with a screw driver, know what I mean?

Like I said it's tough without being there.
Just experiment and you'll get it.
It usually takes me a couple of weeks of tweaking when I drop a new system in to get it where I like it.

Ya i'll try what you recommended 80hz for sub & speakers using filters off on the amps and using the headunit to do that. I might put the gains/bass boost all at 10'clock and go from there.

I don't know if it's just me but when i turn on a song that has lot of bass. The sub seems to really hit hard at first and then seems to hit less playing thru the song. Every heard of that? Is the amp running out of power to push the subwoofer. Do Capacitors fix this?

ScottXGTR

· #4 · Jan 13, 2010

SBNFRH86 said:
Do Capacitors fix this?

capacitors fix nothing. they hide the problem. its like putting a band aid on cancer.

settings seem about right. how does it sound? how do you want it to sound?

as far as the sub getting quieter, it could be a couple of things. first being your ears compensating for the extra noise, or second the coils heating up which changes the electrical properties. some spl competitors will refuse to play their subs until they get into the judging lanes. ive even heard of crazy stories of people trying to keep the subwoofers cool without putting an electrical load on the vehicle.

Mylt1

· #5 · Jan 13, 2010

you really should set your gains with a test CD and a DMM. 50% and 35% dont mean squat and in reality might not be anywhere near those % numbers. also, there is no need for the low pass to be on at the deck, the subs amp will handle that.

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 13, 2010 (Edited)

Mylt1 said:
you really should set your gains with a test CD and a DMM. 50% and 35% dont mean squat and in reality might not be anywhere near those % numbers. also, there is no need for the low pass to be on at the deck, the subs amp will handle that.

I played around with it today and talked to KICKER.

Maybe it does hit the same all the time and my ears just get use to it.

I changed my settings to the following;
1. HEADUNIT
-Max volume-50/62 (80%)
-Sound retriever-OFF
-Loudness-OFF
-Bass boost-+6
-Sub Level-+6
-SLA-+4
-Equalizer-Flat

2. MONO AMP (for Sub)
-Gain-10 o'clock
-Bass boost-10 o'clock
-LPF-80hz

3. 4-CHANNEL AMP (front/rear components)
-Gain-10 o'clock
-Bass boost-OFF
-HPF-80hz

Component speakers get real loud and sound clean.

Subwoofer I set the settings little higher so depending on the song if the sub is to much (distoration then just turn it down on the remote knob next to me). Because switching from screamo to hip hop i don't wanna go back and forth on the deck.

The Subwoofer hits decent. There is enough bass to mess your hearing up but for 400rms & 800 peak you think be little more. Main thing is it seems to bottom out on the lows more noticeable then highs.

I haven't really tired a high quailty cd. It's just been mp3s either burned to a blank cd or to a usb. I read that the higher bit rate of the mp3 will make a difference in the highs and lows. 128 is poor. well over 200 is much better.

Capacitors according to KICKER it's not necessary. I dont know? I read on crutchfield they say every notice a performance drop listening to subs 1 or 2 mins. That adding one will fix this and dimming lights.

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bimmernut318

· #7 · Jan 14, 2010

Have you tried to move sub around, fire backwards, down, other side of the truck to see if it loads better in a different position? Caps will help but not a 1 farad, got to be bigger than that

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 14, 2010 (Edited)

According to KICKER manual on this enclosure. For behind the seat close to you. Subwoofer fired towards the rear is best and least 4" away from an object for the port.

The sub can get pretty loud but seems to be weak on the lows. I'm going to try some better mp3 files.

Also I have nice RCA cables for my 4-channel amp. The mono amp that powers the subwoofer they are pretty cheap. I can use the ground/power/remote. Do you think it's worth upgrading to a higher quailty RCA cable. Do you think it will send a better signal and improve the subwoofer performance in lows as well as other feq.

As far as capacitors there's more people say not worth it or not needed for my set-up.

bimmernut318

· #9 · Jan 14, 2010

Try some better quality music first, it is cheaper, better RCA's help to an extent but I wouldnt go overboard, mine were about $100 a pop and I had lots of them. Different vehicles respond differently to sub placement and orientation, try that too. I would try all the stuff that doesn't cost anything first and go from there! About the cap, I agree with the rest not needed. My BMW system had upgraded alternator, 3 optimas, (2) 5 farad caps, (2) voltage regulators, (5) multi channel amps and lots of speakers. I needed all the help i gould get. Not to mention the money!

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 14, 2010

bimmernut318 said:
Try some better quality music first, it is cheaper, better RCA's help to an extent but I wouldnt go overboard, mine were about $100 a pop and I had lots of them. Different vehicles respond differently to sub placement and orientation, try that too. I would try all the stuff that doesn't cost anything first and go from there! About the cap, I agree with the rest not needed. My BMW system had upgraded alternator, 3 optimas, (2) 5 farad caps, (2) voltage regulators, (5) multi channel amps and lots of speakers. I needed all the help i gould get. Not to mention the money!

Wow that's crazy. As far as orientation i'm limited. 1. The box fits only one way. 2. It's all wired and cut to the length the sub is at. Amp location is set. 3. I already mounted the box to the floor.

I will try better music. Because sometimes other songs do seem to be better. I'll try downloading high bit rate files only.

Then i might move on to better rca cable. There like $35. I believe my whole amp kit was $20. So i know the rca cables are cheap. I have nice ones for my 4-channel amp from best buy. I would just match those.

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 14, 2010

So I think i figured out what the term is called what the subwoofer is doing. It's bottoming out. Can't hit some of those low notes. I'm not sure how to correct it. I don't know if its a setting, or poor quality music, or just how the subwoofer performs normal.

ToddG

· #12 · Jan 14, 2010

1) Capacitors are a huge waste of money, as Scotty said they are a patch for a bigger problem, don't let anyone talk you into buying one.
2) Bass is not directional so moving the sub to a different location, flipping it over, pointing it a different way etc. will not change the sound/performance.

If your sub is not getting clean usable power that could definitely be your problem.
You basically said your sub is distorting correct?
Back the gain down until the sub can handle what you throw at it.
Then adjust the gains on the door speakers to match the level of the sub and go from there.
If that doesn't work then either a different sub or a different sub amp may be required.

bimmernut318

· #13 · Jan 14, 2010

Actually a sub will sound different if you try different locations or just simply aiming differently, it is called loading! i am not saying to buy caps, I am simply stating that a cap wont do crap unless you have big caps and power to make sure that they charge back up way faster than a battery, it is a patch for most.

If your sub is bottoming out or just simply not performing well then it is a matter of either the amp having no balls or the enclosure is just wrong for the sub. I am not saying that I am the know all of this, Just my experience with doing it for competition and professionally for the las 20 years. try different things where no money is involved first, then start throwing money at it till its right. I changed enclosures like my underwear till it was correct for the vehicle.

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SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 14, 2010

bimmernut318 said:
Actually a sub will sound different if you try different locations or just simply aiming differently, it is called loading! i am not saying to buy caps, I am simply stating that a cap wont do crap unless you have big caps and power to make sure that they charge back up way faster than a battery, it is a patch for most.

If your sub is bottoming out or just simply not performing well then it is a matter of either the amp having no balls or the enclosure is just wrong for the sub. I am not saying that I am the know all of this, Just my experience with doing it for competition and professionally for the las 20 years. try different things where no money is involved first, then start throwing money at it till its right. I changed enclosures like my underwear till it was correct for the vehicle.

Well the subwoofer enclosure comes with the subwoofer already in it (kit). It's perfectly matched to the amp i have. It's actually recommended in the owners manual. The sub & amp are both 400 watts rms & 800 watts peak.

Capacitors I'm not buying for sure. Maybe for a larger system.

I'm not saying the subwoofer doesn't hit hard. On almost every note except for the real lows it hits enough to vibrate the windows, seat, and me. But on certain songs that have those low notes for example that hip hop song how low can you go. Once it hits the low part the subwoofer just bottoms out (no real bass just vibrates back and forth real fast).

Is this common?

Would better RCA cables improve this (better signal transfer for the notes)?

You all think it's just more of playing around with the settings?

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bimmernut318

· #15 · Jan 14, 2010

hate to say it but thats how prefab boxes are, not saying that there is anything wrong with that just when they are manufactured they have to appeal to the masses thus the tuning on the box may suit me but not you. if you look at a subs specs it requires x space, problem is that x may be anywhere from .5 cu ft to 2 cu ft, depending on that size is where the sub will like to play. .5 cu ft will be punchy and as you get bigger it will play lower but may never play high enough. my boxes were usually tuned very low and would barely play at 80-90 hz but i compensated by having lots of mid bass in my front stage.

There is alot more to this than just buying a box with a sub in it, some will be happy while others will say it sounds like a**

ToddG

· #16 · Jan 14, 2010

bimmernut318 said:
Actually a sub will sound different if you try different locations or just simply aiming differently, it is called loading!

Maybe in a house, not so much in a truck cab dude.

SBNFRH86 said:
Well the subwoofer enclosure comes with the subwoofer already in it (kit). It's perfectly matched to the amp i have. It's actually recommended in the owners manual. The sub & amp are both 400 watts rms & 800 watts peak.

Capacitors I'm not buying for sure. Maybe for a larger system.

I'm not saying the subwoofer doesn't hit hard. On almost every note except for the real lows it hits enough to vibrate the windows, seat, and me. But on certain songs that have those low notes for example that hip hop song how low can you go. Once it hits the low part the subwoofer just bottoms out (no real bass just vibrates back and forth real fast).

Is this common?

Would better RCA cables improve this (better signal transfer for the notes)?

You all think it's just more of playing around with the settings?

I agree with bimmernut, tweak those settings and keep tweaking them, it's free.
If all else fails then take it to a pro and get their input.

bimmernut318

· #17 · Jan 14, 2010

Not to get in a pissing match but a sub will load anywhere, house, car, boat, it is the nature of the beast. Get in an old hoop ride and fire the subs foward, hits one note, fire backwards, hit totally different notes. subs may be omnidirections but there is back and front phase, makes all the difference in the world! In a sub enclosure you cant really do anything about the back so the next thing to try is having the sub load differently. point the port into a corner and things will change, open the door and things will change, stick it in your driveway and things will change

ToddG

· #18 · Jan 14, 2010 (Edited)

bimmernut318 said:
Not to get in a pissing match but a sub will load anywhere, house, car, boat, it is the nature of the beast. Get in an old hoop ride and fire the subs foward, hits one note, fire backwards, hit totally different notes. subs may be omnidirections but there is back and front phase, makes all the difference in the world! In a sub enclosure you cant really do anything about the back so the next thing to try is having the sub load differently. point the port into a corner and things will change, open the door and things will change, stick it in your driveway and things will change

I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying.
My point is mainly that in the space of a truck cab moving the speaker 1-2 foot one way or the other won't really make a difference, especially with a sealed enclosure.
Now, being that his enclosure is ported there is a greater possibility that placement could make a difference, but in this case I highly doubt it.

SBNFRH86

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 14, 2010 (Edited)

ToddG said:
Maybe in a house, not so much in a truck cab dude.

I agree with bimmernut, tweak those settings and keep tweaking them, it's free.
If all else fails then take it to a pro and get their input.

I do agree placing the subwoofer in different places, facing different ways in a house or other areas. But like said for moving it a foot or so or whatever in the small extended cab i doubt it will change hardly anything. It might sound a little bit different. But the issue i'm having is the subwoofer is bottoming out. It would do that any direction/place. It's hard to believe with a box thats matched to the subwoofer and a manufacterer like kicker that it would have poor performance.

Right now the setting i have on the amp- bass boost/gain @ 10 o' clock. Headunit bass boost +6, subwoofer +6 and eq. flat. Maybe that's to much.

Is it better to have higher bass boost and less gain on the amp? or no bass boost on amp at all and just use the headunit?

So i asked a couple times but no one answered. Would a better rca cable make the performance of the amp/subwoofer better?

Since the bass does it hard in the higher feq. There's no way the subwoofer is bad. This is just a common thing correct?

And I know there's nothing wrong with the amp. It don't get hot, recommended power for the sub, & new.

The subwoofer isn't to close to the rear wall is it?, Would it help if i moved the box forward couple inches?

Here's pics of the stereo system- http://myonlinegarage.com/user/gallery/album/name_SBNFRH86/album_1612/

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ToddG

· #20 · Jan 14, 2010

SBNFRH86 said:
So i asked a couple times but no one answered. Would a better rca cable make the performance of the amp/subwoofer better?

Highly doubtful.

Here's what I would do knowing what you have told us so far, start from scratch.
Set everything flat on the HU, meaning no +6 this and +4 that or -3 the other setting.
All flat.
Put your gain at 3/4 on all of your amps.
Crossovers at 80hz or maybe 100hz max.
Run the system with different kinds of music, stuff you know you will be listening to.
Do the door speakers drown out the sub or does the sub blend in?
If the door speakers are louder than the sub adjust the gain(s).
Get everything balance as far as sound level output at the amps.
Now give a listen and see what you think is missing.
Still not enough bass? Adjust either the bass or the sub level output from the HU not both at the same time.
Believe it or not your door speakers will reproduce decent bass also so don't forget about them (by adjusting sub level output instead of bass).
Not enough treble? Adjust from the HU.

I never turn loudness on, it's just a crutch, I read where you didn't either, good move.

Biggest thing is to change one thing at a time and give a listen.
If you change a bunch of things you won't know what setting is changing your sound for you (for better or worse).

Too bad you're not local, I'd love to help you do some tweaking on your set-up.

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