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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well guys, I finally got around to putting the truck on the dyno so I wanted to post up the results. Especially since the Stillen supercharger kit seems to have such a bad name in the minds of some here.

I have the Stillen kit with a Volant intake and a custom dual exhaust/x-pipe that I fabbed up. Right now I'm using the Stillen piggyback fuel controller and 7th injector setup, but I plan to change in a set of larger injectors and start using my UpRev to do the tuning. As you can see, it's running massively rich (the wideband O2 on this dyno reads about .6 leaner than what it really is) so there is definitely some more power to be found at this boost level.

Speaking of which, it's only running 4.4-5 PSI. Good flat torque curve all the way to redline, which is the advantage of the supercharger. With some decent tuning, it can probably get to the 360-365 WHP level without adding any boost.

This was done on a Dynapack, so it's actually horsepower to the HUBS, as the dyno gets bolted directly to the wheel hubs after removing the wheels. Obviously, with my 33" tires it will cause that to go down, but who's counting? :)

Enjoy!
 

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Those numbers really are not that bad. It is running pretty rich thou, lol. Hopefully UpRev tuning will help with that. This is what most people talk about thou, Stillen's piggyback system sucks when compared to UpRev.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Those numbers really are not that bad. It is running pretty rich thou, lol. Hopefully UpRev tuning will help with that. This is what most people talk about thou, Stillen's piggyback system sucks when compared to UpRev.
I agree completely that the piggy back sucks, but you gotta remember that Stillen is mass producing those kits and shipping them all over. There's a lot of margin for error built in to ensure they don't lean out someone's truck and blow it up. I'd say it made GREAT power for a bolt-on, bolt-off kit.

Going from 265 HP at the crank to 350 horsepower at the hubs is a huge improvement... especially since I bought the kit used for less than $1800! It could be close to 400 HP at the crankshaft depending on the drivetrain losses.

With the injectors, tuning, and the DT long tube headers I'm betting I can get 400 HP at the hubs.
 

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Yea, used its a steal. New, its a bit over priced for what you get.

The LTs will help it out a bit not to mention the UpRev tuning.

Are you going to go the Brutal route in the future thou?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yea, used its a steal. New, its a bit over priced for what you get.

The LTs will help it out a bit not to mention the UpRev tuning.

Are you going to go the Brutal route in the future thou?
I still don't think it's a bad price brand new. Gaining over 120 horsepower for $5,000 is not bad at all. If you look around at what supercharger kits cost for just about any other vehicle, the Stillen kit is about right.

What's the Brutal route? I am going the way of getting rid of the piggyback and extra injector for a set of 550cc squirters and tuning with UpRev. I think he's porting his heads and all of that, but I will not be opening up this motor. I'll tune it with the new injectors, re-tune it with the long tubes, and then I'll move on to a VK swap if I get sick of it.
 

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I still don't think it's a bad price brand new. Gaining over 120 horsepower for $5,000 is not bad at all. If you look around at what supercharger kits cost for just about any other vehicle, the Stillen kit is about right.

What's the Brutal route? I am going the way of getting rid of the piggyback and extra injector for a set of 550cc squirters and tuning with UpRev. I think he's porting his heads and all of that, but I will not be opening up this motor. I'll tune it with the new injectors, re-tune it with the long tubes, and then I'll move on to a VK swap if I get sick of it.
Yea, Brutal went into internals. Lower compression pistons and other fun stuff.

I do like the VK thought thou. I wonder how insane a Frontier would be with a supercharged VK w/ LTs and UpRev and etc... lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yea, Brutal went into internals. Lower compression pistons and other fun stuff.

I do like the VK thought thou. I wonder how insane a Frontier would be with a supercharged VK w/ LTs and UpRev and etc... lol
If/When I do the VK swap, I'll be doing the headers and cams while the motor is out of the vehicle. I would love to do the supercharger as well; I want to fit one of the new Eaton TVS blowers instead of the old 3 lobe Roots that the Stillen kit uses.
 

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If/When I do the VK swap, I'll be doing the headers and cams while the motor is out of the vehicle. I would love to do the supercharger as well; I want to fit one of the new Eaton TVS blowers instead of the old 3 lobe Roots that the Stillen kit uses.
Would the TVS work on the stillen adapter plate? Basically are they using the same bolt pattern between the old 3 lobe style and the new 4 lobe TVS set-up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Would the TVS work on the stillen adapter plate? Basically are they using the same bolt pattern between the old 3 lobe style and the new 4 lobe TVS set-up?
God, if it were only that easy!

Unfortunately, no, the TVS blowers use a completely different bolt pattern and outlet hole for the case. Part of that is because they are fairly new and the aftermarket case makers like Magnussen haven't made any variants. You're stuck with whatever case was made to fit the GM vehicles that it comes on.

Not that it's an impossible fix, but it will take some welding to the adapter plate most likely.
 

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Those are some hella good numbers. Even better then Brutal's although his were to the tires, not just the hubs, so like you said your 33's will account for some loss. But you're still running that piggyback so I'd say w/ Uprev, injectors LT's you'll be head and shoulders above Brutal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Those are some hella good numbers. Even better then Brutal's although his were to the tires, not just the hubs, so like you said your 33's will account for some loss. But you're still running that piggyback so I'd say w/ Uprev, injectors LT's you'll be head and shoulders above Brutal.
Thanks!

I'm looking forward to seeing how far I can go with the stock boost levels this kit is putting out. I have a friend with a machine shop who has turned down more than a few SVT Lightning blower pulleys and he's already bugging me to let him do the same with mine. I'd rather see if I can hit 400 HP without having to push more boost, since we already know the stock internals aren't up for too much abuse.

I think a solid tune with A/F ratio's around 12.5:1 and better flow out of the headers will get me there. I'm also working on trying to get a bigger heat exchanger for the water to air intercooler system because based on my calculations, it's pretty under sized (not to mention the pump itself).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
As a side note, I have to say that I'm ultimately very pleased with Stillen's kit from a reliability perspective. I installed this stuff back in March of last year and my truck has not been off the road for even one day as a result of things breaking or what have you.

Everything works, simple as that, and I don't have to spend any time fixing broken parts or swapping out stuff to get it to work right. It just works and continues to make power, which is all that I can ask for.
 

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Sandtoy, I really don't like doing this, but you do know those numbers are way off? I don't doubt you or the fact thats what your dyno showed, but there is no way you have 350hp to the hubs. That is 65-80 horsepower more than sandy, brutal, or sexterra posted originally with the same stillen supercharger & with very similar 4 x 4 trucks. Some are doing better now with Uprev and other mods, but still they are nowhere close to that. I know they tested at the wheels, but realistically thats maybe 10hp or so compared to the hub. Plus even in your modded 4 x 4 configuration, you would be running 13's without even trying with those numbers.
Again, I'm not trying to start anything. You have a cool truck and I'm sure it's putting out great power. Just not 350hp to the hubs. Try to find a dynojet if you can when you get your Uprev tune done. Dynopacks always put out unrealistic numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Sandtoy, I really don't like doing this, but you do know those numbers are way off? I don't doubt you or the fact thats what your dyno showed, but there is no way you have 350hp to the hubs. That is 65-80 horsepower more than sandy, brutal, or sexterra posted originally with the same stillen supercharger & with very similar 4 x 4 trucks. Some are doing better now with Uprev and other mods, but still they are nowhere close to that. I know they tested at the wheels, but realistically thats maybe 10hp or so compared to the hub. Plus even in your modded 4 x 4 configuration, you would be running 13's without even trying with those numbers.
Again, I'm not trying to start anything. You have a cool truck and I'm sure it's putting out great power. Just not 350hp to the hubs. Try to find a dynojet if you can when you get your Uprev tune done. Dynopacks always put out unrealistic numbers.
Here come the boo-birds. I knew it was only a matter of time.

Who says Dynapacks always read high? Probably the same people who claim that Dynojets are always the most accurate. Please cite your sources before you go off on a tangent. The whole argument that "DynoJets are the only reliable dyno numbers" is about ten years old and completely outdated.

Yes, Dynojets were the first reliable dynos. Yes, they are still considered an industry standard. But they are no longer the only standard, and I will bet $100 that you can't find a reliable source to prove me wrong. I can find just as many articles proving you wrong as you will be able to find proving yourself right.

Obviously, dyno numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt and I will be the FIRST PERSON to say that, but why is it so incredulous that I have better numbers? I made timing changes with UpRev as well as cam engagement changes. I also have an extremely efficient exhaust with no secondary cats, as well as the whole Volant intake that I managed to get to work with the Stillen kit.

I also think you grossly underestimate the effect of having 33" tires and wheels in place on a dyno and what that does to the power figures. It's not a 10 HP reduction, it can be more like 25-40 depending on the weight and diameter of your wheels. I've seen this exact Dynapack spit out numbers almost identical to a Dynojet that a neighboring shop has. I worked at this shop for two years running hundreds of cars on this exact dyno and I can tell you that it's reliable.

Check out their website, Monkeywrench Racing - Performance Sold Here - Celica - MR2 Spyder - Corolla - Lotus Performance. They have a landspeed Toyota Celica, turbocharged and supercharged Lotus race cars as well as the fastest Toyota MR-2S in the world. They've got a great reputation and the owner is a former engineer at Roush. I can assure you that these numbers are perfectly reasonable for power at the hubs.

It's funny that even with dyno charts to support it that some people will still hate on this kit. Hello, it's a supercharger! It makes boost! Which makes power! How hard is that to grasp? XterraHines made close to 400 HP with a turbocharger pushing only a pound or two of boost more than I have, and nobody was claiming anything funny about that. It was all ooh and aahs. Guess what? He dynoe'd on a DYNAPACK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Please do some reading (and watching):

Sport Compact Car Magazine: Technobabble: October 2001

YouTube - Dynapack and DynoJet head to head comparison

What's funny is that after you posted I ran a search. Almost every place I read consistently said that "if you want higher numbers, use a Dynojet instead of a Mustang". I don't know where the Dynapack falls in that argument, but it's funny to see so many people write it while you're here claiming the opposite.

You've run a low 14 second quarter mile naturally-aspirated. What's so outrageous about me running a 13.xx with a supercharger? I fully expect it to with the right tires.
 

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Hey, I'm not trying to bash on you. Seriously, I like your truck and like I said I'm sure you are putting out great power, and yes obviously more horsepower than me. And not trying to say dynojet is the best dyno, its just what most people are use to and people relate best too. The reason I'm saying that you don't have 350hp is that you should be fairly close in power to the others I stated. I have seen their dynos results and even saved them if your curious to see them. They had numbers ranging from 270's-280's to the wheels. None of those truck with the stock stillen stood a chance of running 13's with their similar to your 4 x 4 setup. Your estimating 400crank horsepower. Not sure of your weight, but I'm assuming maybe 4800lbs(just guessing, so correct me if wrong). That calculates to appx a 13.3 1/4 mile. Not happening. Noway. I truthfully think you are in the mid 14 sec range. Maybe low 14's at best.
But I truly hope I'm full of crap and you do have that type of power and could post some great numbers if you felt like it. I really do. I like seeing powerful frontiers. I also would be hunting me down a Stillen SC. I'm not bashing you, just dont like dyno's giving people false hope or believes. I had that happen to myself and even on a dynojet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey, I'm not trying to bash on you. Seriously, I like your truck and like I said I'm sure you are putting out great power, and yes obviously more horsepower than me. And not trying to say dynojet is the best dyno, its just what most people are use to and people relate best too. The reason I'm saying that you don't have 350hp is that you should be fairly close in power to the others I stated. I have seen their dynos results and even saved them if your curious to see them. They had numbers ranging from 270's-280's to the wheels. None of those truck with the stock stillen stood a chance of running 13's with their similar to your 4 x 4 setup. Your estimating 400crank horsepower. Not sure of your weight, but I'm assuming maybe 4800lbs(just guessing, so correct me if wrong). That calculates to appx a 13.3 1/4 mile. Not happening. Noway. I truthfully think you are in the mid 14 sec range. Maybe low 14's at best.
But I truly hope I'm full of crap and you do have that type of power and could post some great numbers if you felt like it. I really do. I like seeing powerful frontiers. I also would be hunting me down a Stillen SC. I'm not bashing you, just dont like dyno's giving people false hope or believes. I had that happen to myself and even on a dynojet.
So wait a second here. You think that your truck, naturally aspirated, will run a faster quarter mile than mine? You think I'll be running mid-14's while you are running low 14's?

On what, may I ask, do you base your assumptions? Other than headers, you have no mods that I do not have. I have a supercharger, and you have a set of shorty headers. I don't see how you can possibly believe that you will be faster.

The reason you MIGHT be CLOSE is because of my tire size. But we're not talking about quarter mile times, we're talking about horsepower at the wheel hubs. And again, I think you vastly underestimate the difference it makes when you take the wheels off.

Those wheels and tires have to weigh over 60 pounds each, and that's a rotating mass. They will cause huge power losses when measured at the wheels.

Your arguments against the supercharger just don't hold any water. People have been making big numbers with Roots blowers for thirty years or more. I just do not get why you think it is so unfathomable that one could gain 120 HP out of a decently tuned supercharger with other bolt on parts.

Horsepower is just a math equation. Gains of 15-22 HP per pound of boost is completely reasonable and I've seen it done hundreds of times with boosted engines of all size, shape and method. There are so many reasons that others had crappy results and I have had good results that I can't even begin to mention them all.

It was relatively cool outside today with low humidity, so I had close to best-case scenarios. Monkeywrench Racing has huge fans to get cool air into the motor during dyno runs, so my intercooler was working well and I was getting cold charge air. And, most importantly, I had the wheels and tires off the car.

It's frustrating to hear people comment on these things because I've been tuning and dynoing performance vehicles for quite a few years and the misconceptions around dyno numbers are huge. You claim my numbers are incorrect while claiming that other's numbers are completely accurate, and you really have no clear evidence of either scenario.

In any case, I'll do you one better and I'll get myself a nice set of drag radials and head to the track this summer. We'll see who's running 13's and who isn't.
 

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Actually, yes I think I put out about as much power OVERALL as a stock stillen SC frontier. Again based on proof offered by sandy, brutal, and sexterra on dynojets, two of them on the same dynojet i was dyno on. There horsepower numbers were all slightly better than mine--read 7-22whp, but their torque was all lower than mine--20-30ftlbs lower infact.
So that along with the fact you weigh several hundred pounds more than me is another reason I'm confident I would beat you in a drag race even with your slicks. I know I can take you from a roll at any speed. Launching my truck is a sob and is whats holding my truck back. But not for long. I will be posting high 13's times with my NA truck very soon. You can hold me to it.
You are taking this to personal sandtoy. I just think stillen SC just doesn't work well on our trucks. However If I found one used like you did, I might jump on it too. They make power, just not 5K worth of power.
 

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nice, But a whipple is much closer to being a bolt on than the TVS. And Magnuson wont sell a blower by itself. A MP120 is really close and can be adpated easily, but is still a roots blower not a compressor. The Whipples smallest is a 2.3 litre, the MP90 is a 1.50 litre. The Whipple takes less power to turn at full tilt, and lower out let temps. So pound for pound will deliver more power. And is close enough to fab an adapter. But a turbo will still spank a blower since is has even more of the benefits than a whipple or TVS does. But when you already have a supercharger setup, It will cost a lot to change and alot of cost. I looked into a Greddy twin tittie setup for a G35, and is close enough to our setup to be the kit to start with. And Ive measured a G35 and we're the closest, and It starts @$6000, plus the fab work to make it work and fit...But it can do 500-1000hp. The Whipple will run me $2800, plus fabbed mounts. So If I wasnt going to Moab in May, hadnt just wrote a big azzed check to Uncle Sam to waste yesturday...I might have already ordered the Whipple as fast as I am. Im WAYYY to heavy to get off the line, but from a roll, I walk from V8's alot
 
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