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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm in the process of building my system, and have been hearing alot of controversy about having speakers in the rear. So does anyone have any input on this?

Apparently having rear speakers distorts the music because on confused sound waves from the front and the rear, or something like that. My friend, who is helping me install everything, keeps trying to explain to me why I should get them. But I really dont understand how it's supposed to sound better/ louder with no rear speakers.

I understand most things easily, but I'm not getting the idea behind this at all. So could someone set me straight on this subject?


As for my system, It's going to include:
1 15" Alpine Type R wired to 1 ohm
a 3.5cu vented box @30hz
6.5" Phoenix Gold RSD comps for the front
1 Hifonics Brutus BXI2010D (sub)
1 Hifonics Zeus ZXi 4006 (comps)
big 3 upgrade
and I'm pretty sure I'm leaving something out..
oh, and money is kinda tight, so im hardwiring to the stock headunit for now, but It'll be upgraded when money allows.
 

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Your forgetting a capacitor. Its optional but recommended if you have a sub.

As far as the rear speakers, you should have them. I'd say whatever you put in the front, put the next cheapest model in the back. They will only fill but without them you will have a dead zone that you will notice. Again, they don't need to be great, just better than stocks.
 

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caps are a worthless piece of crap

if you have a KC rear speakers are pointless unless all u want is loud music. if you want a good sound stage and good sound quality just get spend more on the front comps and amp.

if in a CC rear speakers are nice for rear pasangers but do little for drivers sound stage.

i have a CC and only have a set of amped CDT comps in the front. and sound stage and quality are great. only downfall is rear passangers have some trouble hearing music when at lower volume levels. but iam never in the back seat so i dont care. lol
 

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Your forgetting a capacitor. Its optional but recommended if you have a sub.
please dont spread BS like that. NO ONE in the real car audio world uses caps because they do NOTHING. shops only "recommend" them because of the HIGH mark up on them and they make a butt load of money on them. the average person doesnt know any better so they gladly spend the money. there the audio worlds "tornado".

as for the question. the rear speakers provide fill to round out the whole system. yes, i have heard some really good systems that only had front comps but those were KC trucks or really small cars. larger cars and CC trucks need the fill. as for your choice of subs, i would REALLY rethink that. first off the sub is only 750w RMS. if that amp really does put out 2000wRMS you will fry the sub in short order. now, if you run the sub at 4ohms then the amp puts out 650w RMS which would be a better match. also, your box will be to big. from what im seeing for a ported box, 3^ft is the MAX, with the sweet spot being about 2.25^ft. second, your speaker choice is only 60wRMS and your amp for them is 100wRMS. 75w is ok but 40w more than the RMS and once you turn the vol up they wont last long because of the crappy signal the factory radio will be sending. that and they arent powerful enough for that sub even at 650w. you will ahve all bass and no highs/mids.

back to the subs. 2 10's in a sealed box would put that single 15 to shame. 15's sound muddy and are SLOOOOW. trust me been there. one of, if not the best, 15 ever made was the kicker SPL15 in a sealed box. trust me, been there done that. of course, if you dont care what it sounds like and just want to rattle windows and set off car alarms everywhere you go then carry on.

Unless you are listening to bad quality music, you wont hear any distortion. And most people dont have the ear to tell.
an amped factory deck is going to distort. specially with amped to where he wants it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I do have a CC, and I think I am going to go ahead and get rear speakers.

As for the sub, Type R's can handle MUCH more than what they are rated. A 15" Type R sub will be fine on 2000rms. And the box also should be just fine for it. What I really wanted to do was 2 15" in 7cu box @ 30hz, but money is kind of tight so I'm just doing one with half the enclosure specs. I've seen many people run these subs in the same box specs as I'm wanting and it's exactly what I'm looking for. And as for the speakers, I know they aren't the best and will probably not be able to keep up and be heard well over the bass. But good comps are expensive and these are the best bang for your buck, and will do for now.
 

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so you think taking a sub and feeding it over 2.5X the RMS is going to be fine? not only that but feeding it the crappy dirty signal from a stock deck? IDK who is telling you this crap but there WRONG. im done with this thread. you just want to have bass and a crappy sounding system go right ahead. with less money then what your wasting i could build a system that would put that crap to shame and replace the stock deck. you want to be heard and thats it. have fun paying for those tickets and the hearing problems you WILL have in a very shot time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Mylt1, I've seen the same sub, under the same power last over a year without any damage.. I'm sure you know companies rate there subs differently, and Alpine happened to put 750rms when it really can hold alot more.

But I do see where youre coming from. I don't really care about being heard, I just want a system thats very loud, hit lows well, and be pretty clear.

Also I'm very interested in what you would build with less money and blow this setup away, and would replace the stock deck(and in not being sarcastic in any way). I haven't ordered anything in the setup I wanted, but I do have the money.. So If you have the time and could share the system you were talking about that would blow the one I was thinking about away, I would appreciate it very much.
 

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you have to ask your self what you want. do you want a system that when people sit in your truck say "damn, this is a nice sounding system." or do you want the to say "damn, turn this crap down/off"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What I would really like to have when people sit in my truck, is for them to say "damn, turn this nice sounding system down/off." But I understand loud, clear, and cheap dont go togeather without getting pretty expensive.
 

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a good clean system can be loud and cheap you just have to know what your doing. i did the whole 15" thing back in the day but it was in a trunk where it belonged. i could bounce a 2/3rd full beer can a good 2" off the trunk lid but it was CLEAN inside. it only got loud when i wanted it to. it was probably one of the cleanest sounding cars i ever had. but, it wasnt overly loud because of the trunk. i tried the 15 in the passenger compartment one time, yes, ONE time. you couldnt sit in it because it was just to painful even at lower volumes. i did the loud thing before that. i had a hatch back with 2 10's in a bandpass box and it was just to much. but i was young and stupid at the time so it didnt matter. the last couple of systems i have had have many compliments because everything just worked and sounded great. the highs where clear and the bass was as it should be. all my friends that do comps have there comp car and there daily driver. the comp car is LOUD and the DD is nice and mellow until you crank on it. then its loud and clear. you want something you can live with day to day not something you have to turn off just to think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That sounds just like what I would want. I hate to ask of it, but do you think you could take some time whenever you have it to help me with doing that? All I really would need is a parts list and box specs. And room isn't an issue, I could take out my back seats, or sit the box in the seats, or if space allows behind them.
 

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hey Mylt, can u list what ur sys is?
in this truck its not much. just a panasonic deck and a kicker solo baric 10" running off a RF 250 amp. i havent had much time to do anything with this truck. between 2 kids, a wife, and work time and money are both on short order. every time i get ready to start, something comes up. as long as nothing goes wrong in the next couple of months i should be able to get it to where i want it.
 

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I would spend the money on the deck first then work fron there. You are never going to get quaility sound from the stock deck. You will be amazed at the difference a quality deck will make even on the stock speakers. Anyhow do what you want and what your money will allow. Keep speakers that will fit into the stock position in the front. Get some 6 1/2 adapters for the rears and throw two tens under the seats. Amp to all and you will be just fine :)
 

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That sounds just like what I would want. I hate to ask of it, but do you think you could take some time whenever you have it to help me with doing that? All I really would need is a parts list and box specs. And room isn't an issue, I could take out my back seats, or sit the box in the seats, or if space allows behind them.
its hard to spec out a system for someone else. everyone hears different. what sounds good to me may sound like crap to you. i can tell you that some of the not so well known brands do sound good. focal and menphis audio come to mind. again, thats my hearing. you need to go out and listen to as many different speakers as you can. take a note pad and write down model numbers as well as what there being powered with(deck or amp) if its powered by an amp, get the model number to that as well.

I would spend the money on the deck first then work fron there. You are never going to get quaility sound from the stock deck. You will be amazed at the difference a quality deck will make even on the stock speakers. Anyhow do what you want and what your money will allow. Keep speakers that will fit into the stock position in the front. Get some 6 1/2 adapters for the rears and throw two tens under the seats. Amp to all and you will be just fine :)
agreed about the deck. but you have that backwards. we have 6x9's in the front and 6.5's in the rears(no adapters needed). my advice is to always replace 6x9's with 6.5's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Okay, I'll probably just use my budget to get a really nice deck, some nice comps for the front and back, and a good amp to power them. Then I'll just save up alittle more money and do some research at the time and buy subs later. Does that sound alright?

Also I have an 01' with 6.5"s in the front and 5.25" coaxial speakers in the back. Would it be okay to replace the coaxials with regular comps?
 

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back to the subs. 2 10's in a sealed box would put that single 15 to shame. 15's sound muddy and are SLOOOOW. trust me been there. one of, if not the best, 15 ever made was the kicker SPL15 in a sealed box.
As far as 15s being muddy and slow, that's not true.First of all a lot of that has to do with the BL rating of the speaker.Companies take these subs and make a 10" version with a BL rating and motor that is strong enough to move that 10" cone and then try to make it in a 15" version with the same motor and BL rating and it sounds like crap.This is because the 15" cone is obviously going to weigh more than the 10" cone, therefore it is going to require slightly different configurations to get both of those cones to react the same way.Moral of the story: It honestly depends on who you buy from and whether you know what to look for or not.But to say that all 15s are slow and sound muddy is not only not true but misinforming.

As far as a Kicker 15 being the best 15 ever made, well :thatswck:

so you think taking a sub and feeding it over 2.5X the RMS is going to be fine?
It honestly depends on the sub and the type of amp,signal, box, etc. you are running.That amp puts out 1752 watts RMS at 14.0 volts by the way.A lot of people run those Type R 15s on about 1000-1400 watts daily, but they also have a box that has been tuned and built correctly with a proper install and a strong clean signal going to the amps.

I'm not trying to pick apart everything you're saying, I just read the entire thread and saw some things that I picked out that hadn't been addressed yet.
 

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lol. ill pick apart everyones posts. i dont give a damn.

Your forgetting a capacitor. Its optional but recommended if you have a sub.
please stfu and see the following posts:

Also I didn't forget a capacitor, you don't need one.
Why you don't need a capacitor - Realm of Excursion
caps are a worthless piece of crap
please dont spread BS like that. NO ONE in the real car audio world uses caps because they do NOTHING. shops only "recommend" them because of the HIGH mark up on them and they make a butt load of money on them. the average person doesnt know any better so they gladly spend the money. there the audio worlds "tornado".




As for the sub, Type R's can handle MUCH more than what they are rated. A 15" Type R sub will be fine on 2000rms.
the older type r's can take some abuse. it all depends on the user. clean signal played responsibly in the proper setup and you can exceed the rms by a good bit. saying you are gonna run twice the RMS is rather foolish tho. there are very very few subs on the market that i would even dare to make that claim. and unfortunately the type R is no where near the category

back to the subs. 2 10's in a sealed box would put that single 15 to shame. 15's sound muddy and are SLOOOOW. trust me been there.
Mylt, i normally agree with 99% of what you say. this is that other 1% where i have to respectfully disagree. some 15s can be slow. but one of the best sounding, most lifelike subs i have ever used was a Fi Q 18" with about 1000w of power ported in 6.5 cubes at 30hz in my old xterra. to say i was amazed is an understatement. it took everything i could throw at it and it kept up flawlessly. there was no slow to this woofer. tight bass stayed tight. its not the only exception to the rule tho. ive played with a handful of 15s that played wonderfully in their properly tuned ported boxes.

anyhoo, 2 10s vs 1 15 is really personal preference. my personal preference is always a ported box, tuned low, and the smallest woofer i will use is a 12. ive used everything from 6" subs to 18" subs so i have found what i like. lets not forget to mention the install is 80% of how good something sounds as well.

You will want a aftermarket receiver, or at least an aftermarket tuner (three sixty, jl clean sweep, etc) if you stick with the factory receiver. the factory stuff is designed to blend well inside of a frontier. the aftermarket stuff wont, so you will want the adjustability that comes with a modern receiver.

as far as needing rear speakers, i agree with what has been said. in a crew cab, a set of decent coaxials will keep your passengers happy, but do little to reinforce your sound experience. i would still advise running them for "fill" but probably with the fader set a few clicks forward so they dont try to overwhelm the nicer components running up front. running components in the rear can be a pain in the *** to get sounding right. you have to spend more time aligning tweeters so you dont get interference in front. the tweeters on a coaxial wont be as bright so they are much easier to blend.

in a king cab, rear speakers are optional if you have good speakers up front. i still have the stock speakers in my rear doors disconnected because i have the front covered by my SEAS Prestige 27TDFC silk tweeters and SEAS Prestige P18RNX/P 7" woofers running active on a sundown sax100.4. in the ext cab is a Ascendant Audio Havoc 12" in a fiberglass/mdf box running on a sundown SAZ-1500d ported 2.5 cubes ~30hz. signal is handled by an Alpine IXA-W404 and some stinger expert wiring. Second Skin deadening the doors. this is one of my nicer sounding setups setups that isnt overkill (for once). i guess getting old happens to us all. maybe one day ill turn the 1500d up and send the sub more than the 600w its using now.
 
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