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Has anyone used a 350z rear axel lsd in a 1st gen frontier. I would like to have the lsd in my truck.
 

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You’re really asking if a 350Z LSD differential will work in a Frontier axle. The answer is probably not.

For starters, it depends on what axle you have. Since yours is a 00 XE 2wd, it’s either the H190 or C200 depending on transmission. If it’s the H190, the LSD won’t fit. If it’s the C200, the differential might physically fit in the axle (the R200V shares some dimensional characteristics with the R200 and C200 differentials), but the side gear splines might be the deal breaker. I’d be certain they are not same, but I’ve not confirmed.

There are “phantom grip” and “traction concepts” LSDs on eBay that install into the above differential carriers, but not an approach I’d suggest.

An actual axle swap from another truck is possible. Others (including self) and swapped in H233B axles from older Pathfinders and Hardbodies, and LSDs for those are fairly easy to acquire. There are also write-ups for swapping over Dana 44s from Isuzus. Both can also be used to convert to disc brakes and keep the same bolt pattern.
 

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The 350Z is a C200 axle and people have swapped in the 350Z LSD but it was very expensive, I believe the 350Z LSD is made by Quiafe or some similar sounding name. There is a thread in this forum about his swap.
 

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The 350Z is a C200 axle and people have swapped in the 350Z LSD but it was very expensive, I believe the 350Z LSD is made by Quiafe or some similar sounding name. There is a thread in this forum about his swap.
Please check your information before throwing random, incorrect info out.

The 350Z does not use a C200 axle. It uses either the R200 (open) or R200V (viscous LSD) differential. Quaife makes helical LSDs, not viscous LSDs; they are not the same. Outside of these viscous units, Nissan primarily used clutch-based LSDs, particularly in their trucks.

Please provide proof of people putting Quaife helical LSDs into C200 rear axles that are only found on Nissan trucks, and the costs they’re putting into having custom axle shafts made with the correct spline and spline diameters to make that work.

People with 4wd Nissan trucks have swapped in 300ZX rear LSDs into their front 29-spline R200 differentials, but rear C200 have used 31-spline shafts for a long time. The older H233B 31-spline dimensions are the same as the C200 31-spline. Swapping a 350Z VLSD is only practical/possible if it’s also 31-spline, and I’d be confident it’s not (my background is in Nissan trucks, not their cars, but I can determine it if needed).

If you need proof for any of my statements, I’ll provide it. I hoard Nissan differentials and axles; I’ve done 33- to 31-spline conversions; I rebuild H233B LSDs regularly; and I’ve swapped my Frontier’s H190A rear axle to a H233B to obtain both an LSD and rear disc brakes.
 

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Please refer to the thread for 350Z LSD swapping as I've never even touched a 350Z in my life and would never consider buying one. Just giving poster some info I saw in this forum. With your extensive expertise with the subject matter maybe you can help the guy out.
 

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Please refer to the thread for 350Z LSD swapping as I've never even touched a 350Z in my life and would never consider buying one. Just giving poster some info I saw in this forum. With your extensive expertise with the subject matter maybe you can help the guy out.
Lot of speculation in that thread without any resolve, unfortunately. Keep in mind that discussion was for D40 Frontiers, not the D22 in question here. 2005 is the inflection point for Nissan axles and differentials...they may share similar naming conventions and some dimensions, but they're ultimately quite different.

For that discussion, it's highly plausible that a 350Z LSD will fit a C200-equipped D40, simply because I can confirm the 2.5L D40 used the exact same open carrier housing and side gears as the 350Z. The C200 and C200K are subtly different, but appear to use the same 31-spline by 32.0mm according to ARB. I show the Quaife QDF13L for 2003-08 350Z/G35 with VLSD as being 31-spline by 33.0mm, though the latter dimension reads like a bore ID, and not a spline OD. I would chance that the 350Z Quaife would fit an 05+ C200 or C200K with little fitment issue...though, all those differentials and axle shafts may involve the use (or non-use) of circlips (compression clips), which could ultimately be an issue, particularly if the clip depth is different. It's also worth noting that VLSD applications use different housings designed for fluid flow to support the "viscous" portion of the LSD. Putting the VLSD unit into an non-VLSD housing may reduce its effectiveness.

Since we're potentially talking about a D22 2.4L 2wd C200 here, though, I'm in a position to validate fitment. Here is my assessment:
  • As noted, I hoard this sort of stuff. I have a R200A 29-spline carrier, an RD106 ARB locker for a rear 31-spline C200, and the corresponding axle shafts handy to get actual measurements from (these are for pre-05 trucks). 29-spline axle shafts are 29.9mm in diameter, and 31-spline are 31.8mm.
  • ARB specs their carrier opening as 30.4mm for 29-spline, and 32.0mm for 31-spline. (Presume carrier openings are about +0.5mm larger to allow sliding the shaft in.)
  • Quaife model QDF13L shows application for 2003-08 350Z and G35 with VLSD diffs. A dimensional data sheet for it shows it as a 31-spline by 33mm shaft diameter. It also shows the ring gear ID (127.9mm) and ring gear bolt pattern (10x 12mm x 149.9mm) is consistent with my measurements and ARB data (128mm ID x 150mm pattern).
  • All the remaining dimensions of the Quaife QDF13L are oversized. The data sheet shows the overall carrier length as being 179.1mm, with 141.0mm between bearings. The overall length is of lesser importance because of the case design on these, but the R200A carrier is 165.1mm and 127.1mm, respectively. The 14mm bearing differences are a deal breaker. Although the bearing heights are the same (19mm, though it would still need a different bearing because the ID's are 47mm vs 45mm), the distance from the bearing to ring gear mounting surface is 38.7mm on the Quaife vs. 31mm (total 50mm offset) on the R200A and RD106. This difference is also a deal breaker.
  • Even if all those dimensions were correct, C200 rear axles in 2wd trucks use 29-spline axle shafts, not 31-spline. I should clarify that my prior comment about 31-splines in C200 was largely a reflection of the newer 4wd trucks I work on, forgetting that 2wd C200's, specifically those in 2.4L trucks, stayed at 29-spline. Older 4wd trucks (Hardbody, WD21 Pathfinder) with rear C200 were also 29-spline, but they eventually changed to 31-spline. Anyway, the confirmation here is that the side gears in 2wd 2.4L Frontiers with C200 rear axles are the same side gears found in 3.3L Frontiers/Xterra with R200A front axles (p/n 38423-C6100 if anyone cares), which are known to be 29-spline.
  • For this reason, 300ZX Turbo LSDs have been fitted to front R200A diffs on 4wd trucks after boring out the ring gear bolt holes for 12mm bolts. This should also apply to fitment in a 2.4L rear C200.
Now...that all said, a Quaife QDF7L LSD for a variety of Z, ZX, and SX cars of the 80's and 90's also appears to be dimensionally perfect. The dimensional data sheet has the right overall length (165.9 mm), right bearing spacing (128.0mm), bearing dimensions (45mm x 19mm), right ring gear offset (50mm), ring gear ID (128.0mm) and pattern, though the 10.2mm holes would need to be bored out to accept 12mm ring gear bolts, just like on the 300ZX LSD. The axle shaft bore (32mm) is high for the spline OD, however, I presume this is just the bore opening.

Of course, all this still hinges on the truck using a C200. OE C200 LSDs also existed, but good luck finding one...and even if you do, it may still be a matter of 29-spline vs. 31-spline. Frankly, I've never seen a C200 LSD, though I know it uses the same LSD pieces as the H233B LSD (and apparently the H190 LSD).

If it's an H190A, all the above is off the table...however, 4x4Parts lists an OEM LSD unit for $950. I swapped in an H233B with LSD and disc brakes for well under that.
 
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If my memory....or what's left of it...is correct, Nissan used the C200 LSD on the D21 Hardbody "long beds" around 86.5-88 with the standard cab, V6, 2WD and a seven foot long bed (which are "rare as hen's teeth," as the saying goes) and I don't recall the C200 LSD being used in anything else? Don't quote me on that, because the further I get away from the 1980's, the less I remember! 😉 I would think the best way for Dave 2000XE to get his LSD diff would be to swap out the rear axle for an H233B LSD unit. Another option would be to install an ARB air-locker into his current C200 rear axle, which is a rather expensive option (around $1000 just for the air locker and doesn't include the compressor kit) and I'm guessing a lot more than he would want to invest!

Hawairish has got a lot of good information in that thread! There's an old thread at Nico Club that has a lot of good info as well:

 

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The interesting thing is that many model and year FSMs actually spec'd optional LSDs for both the H190A and C200 diffs, even up to 97 Hardbodies. If they existed, they're surely rare, but since some of the sales brochures don't even mention anything about them in packages, that'd probably explain why many buyers didn't opt for them. My guess, though, is that they didn't really exist in those trucks...but it'd be a cool find, nonetheless.

Locking up the rear would be cool, but yeah, it ain't cheap!
 

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So far in my experience with this ABLS with some decent tires, it is as effective as my old chev clutch pac LSD or my dodge diesel torsen style LSD. Though probably not a match for a true locker.
 

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So far in my experience with this ABLS with some decent tires, it is as effective as my old chev clutch pac LSD or my dodge diesel torsen style LSD. Though probably not a match for a true locker.
Okay, but ABLS has nothing to do with this discussion. It’s not a realistic option for the OP, and it’s neither a LSD nor a locker. I don’t even consider LSDs as lockers.
 

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I had a '97 D21 KC/SE/AT/2WD with the KA24E that I purchased new just as the Frontiers were just coming out. It was a great color: AR0 Autumn Sunburst. I was working for Nissan and put in almost every option with the exception of the faux wood grain kit; even had the Nissan 3-CD changer in it. I loved that truck except for one thing: the C200 open carrier. Most of the time, it wasn't an issue when I lived in NJ, but when I moved to a house in central VA on a road that had an uphill no matter which way I turned out of the driveway, it became an issue. A little bit of snow or ice and it wasn't going anywhere but the ditch on the side of the road. That was back in 2004 and even then I couldn't locate an LSD diff for it other than spending $800 at Nissan (and it was that "cheap" because if my connections with a Nissan parts person). In 2006, it was no longer an issue because just after I past 200,000 miles, the hot wire to the #4 injector shorted on the cylinder head and cause the wires in the main harness to melt together all the way to the ignition switch white wire. I order a new main harness from Nissan, but after 18-months and no luck as to when it would show up, I decided to sell it for $600. I originally paid $16,800, so it owed me no money. If that diff was hard to find then, imagine how hard it would be to find one now, 15-years later?
 

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Exactly, @smj999smj . You'd think that with the trucks coming off the road and ending up in yards, that maybe some would surface eventually. I try to keep an eye out for them whenever I can (I'll occasionally harvest H233B LSDs for rebuilds), but I always snoop around any Nissan truck when I see them at the junkyard, especially the D21s. They had so many options available, you never know what you'll find. In my case, an SE V6 2WD yielded the narrow-width leaf-under H233B and 3.9 gears that's replaced the H190 from my 98 D22 KC MT. I spent some time trying to find a possible donor for an H190 LSD, but I exhausted that search. I assumed the similar scenario for C200-equipped trucks.

BTW, that's some usage in a few years! Bummer about the short...it no doubt had plenty of life left.

To the OP, if he ever returns...SE V6 2WD D21 Hardbodies have H233B rear axles that are the same width of D22 I4 2WD rears, with the same perch width, too. Finding a matching gear ratio might take some effort, but they had similar high gear ratios available. Having the axle opens up the opportunity to put a LSD in it. Here's the link to my recent swap with much more detail: 1998 Frontier 2WD H190A to H233B Axle Swap + LSD + Disc.... Having a C200 instead of an H190 swap actually helps here since the pinion flange should be the same as an H233B, and the snout length is about the same, too.
 

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Okay, but ABLS has nothing to do with this discussion. It’s not a realistic option for the OP, and it’s neither a LSD nor a locker. I don’t even consider LSDs as lockers.
Well great to see you have an opinion, but their all traction devices and as you'll soon realize is discussions tend to stray far and wide much as this one has, as someone down the road may get their question resolved possibly.
 

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Well great to see you have an opinion, but their all traction devices and as you'll soon realize is discussions tend to stray far and wide much as this one has, as someone down the road may get their question resolved possibly.
Actually, no, "they're" not all traction devices. Active-Brake Limited-Slip (ABLS) is a system based on speed and angle sensors; an independent-wheel braking systems; engine and transmission override protocols; and open differentials...absolutely none of which exist on a 2000 Frontier, except an open differential. ABLS is not a device nor a differential.

Limited-Slip Differentials (LSD) and lockers are devices—physical, tangible, mechanical differentials that can be installed in an axle and operate independently from any other system. LSDs are "analog" traction devices that are incapable of fully locking axle shaft output (otherwise they'd be a locker); they can transition between no-, low-, and high-traction states depending on rotational speed of, and applied torque to, the differential by the driveshaft or axle shafts. Lockers are "digital" traction device that are either fully open or fully locked, actuated by air, cable, electromagnets, or rotational force. While we're on the topic, a spool is neither a LSD, locker, nor a differential by definition; it is a fixed-shaft carrier that permanently distributes axle shaft output evenly (i.e., it's "locked" but is not a "locker").

Now, circling back to your vomitus. It's replies like yours that cause discussions to stray far and wide. No one will read your reply and say, "Wow, now that's the information I was looking for!" It's random, incoherent, and irrelevant. My fact- and experience-driven "opinion" that your worthless mention of ABLS is inapplicable to this conversation absolutely stands, and is fully supported by my understanding of traction systems and devices. Unlike you, I'm fully aware of "their" differences because I rebuild Nissan LSDs and install lockers in Nissan trucks a few times annually, rather than pretend to do so. I hope you can see why your and my replies differ so greatly. I mean, do you even own a Nissan? 350Z C200s...ABLS...decent tires...Chevy...Dodge...ABLS = LSD = lockers? GTFOH with that nonsense.

I'll say again here what I said another thread: If you don't have an answer, don't reply.
 

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You can ramble on and on but pretty much everyone on the forum who's well read understands the differences in traction devices, an that the ABLS while not an actual device that you can buy in a box is none the less is a software driven traction control device using the brakes to limit wheel slip. And is advertised as such by nissan.I guess you could argue with nissan if you wish, as you do like to ramble. Your not exactly opening eyes with your tidbits harwi
 

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You can ramble on and on but pretty much everyone on the forum who's well read understands the differences in traction devices, an that the ABLS while not an actual device that you can buy in a box is none the less is a software driven traction control device using the brakes to limit wheel slip. And is advertised as such by nissan.I guess you could argue with nissan if you wish, as you do like to ramble. Your not exactly opening eyes with your tidbits harwi
Everyone, except you, understands the difference. That's what prompted me to break down definitions...just for you (you're welcome).

Here's how it went down:
  1. You disagreed with my opinion and stated your own, without conveying any understanding or providing any proof in support.
  2. I re-stated my opinion, fully supporting it with information ("facts"), conveying full understanding, and ultimately disproving your opinion (I've had to do this multiple times, apparently, whether you're convinced or not).
You understand how debates work, right? You think I'm rambling? The following is me rambling (and yet still shutting you down), so that you can compare against the fact-based replies I've provided previously regarding the topic at hand:
  • Nissan calls it ABLS in the context of a system, not a device. Show me where it says "device". The fact that any manufacturer "advertises" any such features is all part of the marketing campaign to sell vehicles, not the engineering concepts to make them. You must believe that the only "Trail Rated" trucks in the world are Jeeps and that Jeep engineers talk about Trail Rated bell curves and standard deviations, while the Jeep accountants are like, "No no, we need to reduce our Trail Rated costs; the ROI on Trail Rated expenses are too low." Jeep CEO be like: "I don't care, ramp up on synergy! Let's empower our customer base by giving 110% and circle back with more Trail Ratings!"
  • If you want to stick to sales brochure lingo, then you should stop describing your truck as using rear leaf springs. The correct terminology is "overslung multi-leaf rear suspension with solid axle". Now, do you want to argue with me or Nissan whether it's a system or a device?
  • You used "while not an actual device" and "is a software driven traction control device" to describe a traction system that assists with traction by being a pseudo traction device that no one can "buy in a box"? Deep, bro, but let's go deeper...
  • Air is part of a traction system that includes a traction device called a "tire" where less air, arguably, means more traction. Therefore, a low-pressure tire might act like a LSD sometimes, and a flat tire could then be a locker—in part by the definition I provided—because air is a possible actuator. It's then plausible a tire with negative air pressure—a vacuum—could be a superlocker! Not sure I'd call air a traction device in itself, but it's technically something tangible that I could install in axles instead of ARBs. Air is also free (in most places, anyway). I'll have to run that by the next guy who asks me to do an install: "Did you say A-R-B or AIR-R-B?" I'm going to call my big air compressor a locker from now on, but it's really just a limited slip when it's half full.
  • An open differential is also a traction device...just not a great one. But so we're clear, replacing an open diff with another open diff is nonsensical, just like your replies.
  • Was the mention of ABLS previously just another random brain fart on the topic of traction devices, even though it's completely irrelevant to the discussion...or did you mean to imply it as an option? I mean, it's not even an option for the OP, so it didn't make sense to bring it up in the first place. But on that topic...
  • I'm surprised you didn't bring up snow chains, sand bags, 2x4s, a Christmas tree strapped to the roof, or your buddy's rusted-out F150 with a chain wrapped around a tow ball...all of which can also be traction devices in certain situations, and all being tangible devices, no less. It probably would have been chased by some lame story about you using them on your factory-equipped Dana 44 Nissan Miata 4-door hatchback sedan 3WD where you argued its penta-fractal U(nlimited)L(ocker)S(ystem)D(evice) (not to be confused with ABLS, of course) is better than a Detroit locker in Jersey Shore sand, but not Yuma sand. What Nissan did you say you own again?
  • For the record, you've now indirectly perpetuated incomplete thoughts about D40 trucks on a D22 topic at least twice. I first presumed you knew Nissan produced trucks before 2005 (none of which are Trail Rated), but apparently I've only made an made an a s s out of u and me (which I do for fun, but you do regularly). Presume vs. Assume
In closing, I'm not sure how you can be so oblivious, defensive, and illogical about everything. The real eye-opener here is your ignorance. Look Sam, it's okay to struggle with reading and comprehension; you'll get better by trying, though. But seriously, you should stop replying here until you've learned something, or are willing to learn something, about the topic. You haven't a clue what you're talking about; you're just spewing out useless, irrelevant bullshit. If you disagree, please show me what you consider as useful, relevant, and factual contributions so that I can further dispel them.
 

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Once again howy your arguing with nissan, chptr BRC under Traction Control System. I would like to extend an invitation to you to join our chat on proper oil for our little trucks, you sound like you'd enjoy it very much.
 

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Once again howy your arguing with nissan, chptr BRC under Traction Control System. I would like to extend an invitation to you to join our chat on proper oil for our little trucks, you sound like you'd enjoy it very much.
Once again, you're oblivious. Show me where I argued with Nissan? Where have I said they're wrong, about anything? And now we're talking Traction Control System? Dude, you're all over the place. Do you pee on the toilet lid because you don't know that it lifts opens? Do you realize that you're trying to argue that when Nissan calls something a "system" that you think it's a "device" and you bring up a "Traction Control System", which literally has the word "system" in it? Do you understand that "your" (you're) the one arguing with Nissan? And you're trying to convince me that I'm arguing with Nissan by agreeing with them that it's a system because they call it a system? You'd make the best lawyer in the world, but maybe high school was never your thing.

But, I'll entertain you nonetheless because I'm willing and able to learn in ways you are not. Since you gave no information about which FSM I should look at for the BRC "chptr" (a.k.a., "chapter" for those of use that know what vowels are and where they exist on a keyboard), I'll pull up a 2016 Frontier FSM because I know you're too cheap and "unlucky" to buy a $210 FSM for your MY17.

And just to confirm, Nissan calls it a system, and I agree it's a system. I presume you think it's a device because you've taken that stance on a similar system. Here is the system description, which I'm sure is foreign to you:



The word "system" is used 7 times. The words "device", "differential", and "limited" are never used. "SLIP" is used once to describe which indicator lamp is lit when the system activates. The word "axle" is used twice to indicate where on the axle sensors are located. Neither system diagrams shows a differential, open or otherwise, not even as a reference to where it exists in the system.

As a reminder, this discussion is (was, but you've "fckd" that up) about a traction device called a limited slip differential. Not ABLS. Not TCS. Not a deployable parachute at the end of a quarter mile. Not a MY16 truck. Not a 2nd Generation Frontier. Not your Nissan Miata. For an entirely different truck that you know absolutely nothing about.

I would join your chat about oil in trucks if I cared about the topic (I don't) or wanted to spend every day correcting your bullshit (I don't). I'd rather you just STFU. And no, that's not a school where you can learn about 1st Gen Frontiers. It's a methodology you can apply to help you learn anything.
 
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Hey @smj999smj , you might find this interesting, but a guy with a C200 LSD from a 04 D22 reached out to me this week for some help. Oddly, every clutch piece measured significantly under spec, including pieces that don't see any friction at all due to the LSD configuration. I've not seen pics of anything to substantiate it, and frankly I'm still in total disbelief it's even possible, but I'm having to take his word on it. To put the amount of wear in context, the numbers suggest that, of effectively 22 friction pieces in the entire unit, the stack has compressed 4 full pieces. Either acid was used instead of gear oil, or that thing has been hammering everything flat for years. Doesn't look like Nissan can get him replacement pieces any time soon, but I have enough on hand to help him replace everything, so we're working that out. Hoping to see pics of the unit once he pulls it back out of the truck.

I thought it was pretty interesting to talk about the scarcity of them just days prior, and then to have proof.
 
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Sorry Mr. Zedbra, I shoudn't have lowered myself to that level. I'll just keep quiet when it comes to my boy howy.
 
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