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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wondering what people think is the causes of a bad performing suspension system. I am not talking about worn parts.
There are many causes.
One main cause I believe is improper spring rate.
Looking forward to other ideas.
 

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I personally think the biggest issue is the user not being realistic with how they use the vehicle, hence resulting in a very poorly valved suspension for the conditions and driving style.


As an example...and just thinking out loud;

For instance, a lot of mid west guys end up with the 2.5" coiloves set up for desert running because they want "the best" for offroading. But the only use they see is for fire roads or mall crawling, so now the driver complains that the ride is harsh or stiff over speed bumps and pot holes. As it should be; it is designed to go over bumps at speed so will actually be rather harsh at slow speeds.

in my opinion this user would be much more suited to a 2.0 shock retaining the stock valving and spring rate, but maybe add an air bump for the unexpected hard hits when offroad. Bigger isn't always better.
 

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This is just my experience, I have no formal training or anything like that beyond lots of internet reading and trial and error with my truck...


My Lessons Learned:

Tire pressure is important. It has a huge impact on ride both on and off road before you even get to the suspension. Can help offset a spring rate that may be not quite perfect.

Having bump stops that are set incorrectly will cause for a poor ride on the extremes of travel and possibly lead to broken parts (ask me how I know lol)

A spring rate that is too light makes for a mushy lazy ride that struggles to recover travel after repeated hits. A spring rate that is too heavy bounces you all over the place and makes you feel every little pebble in the road. You also never use all the travel available unless you unintentionally get airborne (again, ask me how I know)

Ride height that is too high or too low also makes for a poor ride. Too high and you constantly hear the coil bucket beating the crap out of the UCAs any time you step off the pavement. Too low and the bump stops let you know with a nice jolt through your lower back often.

Shock valving that does not match the rest of the system can make for a poor ride. To light of valving, especially in the rebound circuit, can cause the shock to top out WAY to quickly when falling into a hole and is met with a loud 'clank' (see notes about bump stops). Compression valving that is too light will cause you to blow thru travel very quickly on big hits that can also lead to lovely banging noises. Too heavy of valving will just make everything feel stiff.

Swaybars can cause a poor ride. The stock swaybar is crazy stiff and will shake you quite vigorously. Removing helps with the shaking but makes for a good bit of body roll. A light weight swaybar greatly improves body roll yet avoids most of the shaking.

And that's what I've learned thus far in my suspension travels:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I personally think the biggest issue is the user not being realistic with how they use the vehicle, hence resulting in a very poorly valved suspension for the conditions and driving style.


As an example...and just thinking out loud;

For instance, a lot of mid west guys end up with the 2.5" coiloves set up for desert running because they want "the best" for offroading. But the only use they see is for fire roads or mall crawling, so now the driver complains that the ride is harsh or stiff over speed bumps and pot holes. As it should be; it is designed to go over bumps at speed so will actually be rather harsh at slow speeds.

in my opinion this user would be much more suited to a 2.0 shock retaining the stock valving and spring rate, but maybe add an air bump for the unexpected hard hits when offroad. Bigger isn't always better.
Agree totally. I would rather have a a lower end shock with proper valving than a high end one with poor valving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Your spring rate needs to be correct first.
No shock valving will correct the wrong springs.
Too high of a spring rate will not allow proper rebound. For example. Let's say you have a corner weight of 600lbs. You run a 600lb spring. Same vehicle with 450 lb springs. What tire will rebound faster?. The 450lb. Spring will. There is no pressure on the $600lb spring. Just gravity.
Millions of things can affect suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My truck has a problem with wheel hop.
People been guessing it is axle wrap. I disagree because I had lighter leafs and no problem. Axle wrap is caused because of weak leafs.
Maybe pinion angle or shock tuning.
I am almost convinced my leave pack is too stiff.
Need more testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, most people say get rid of the sway bar. Like you said there are times you need one.I don't think I do since I don't go fast enough.
Some desert racers use adjustable ones.The whoops around curves cause a lot of body roll and this corrects it.

Just to change the subject a little.
Nick Tonelli is getting married. He had his bachelor party in San Felipe this weekend. Some of my co- drivers went.
Just found out there was a. Ehicle probkem, I think the tow vehicle.
They had to drive the 1450 race truck across the border.
Can't imagine what the border guards thought!
 

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I could not be happier with my bilsteins 5100 and ome ld spring set up. No sway bar. Handles like a 4x4 race car lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I am glad you like your suspension. No offense but
when you can take 3 ft whoops at 80 miles an hour, you been in a off road race car.
I have 14 inches of travel, front and Rear and can't come close to that speed.
This car can! Shock tuning was done at The King test track by their tuners.
Team members racing NORRA this year.
This is going also. Completed all legs last year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This one can also. It's for sale. He is a new daddy.
This one will be able to the same when it's done.
 

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I personally think the biggest issue is the user not being realistic with how they use the vehicle, hence resulting in a very poorly valved suspension for the conditions and driving style.


As an example...and just thinking out loud;

For instance, a lot of mid west guys end up with the 2.5" coiloves set up for desert running because they want "the best" for offroading. But the only use they see is for fire roads or mall crawling, so now the driver complains that the ride is harsh or stiff over speed bumps and pot holes. As it should be; it is designed to go over bumps at speed so will actually be rather harsh at slow speeds.

in my opinion this user would be much more suited to a 2.0 shock retaining the stock valving and spring rate, but maybe add an air bump for the unexpected hard hits when offroad. Bigger isn't always better.
I'll add trying to have a suspension that will do everything usually ends up doing mediocre in all areas. What's the saying? "Jack of all trades, master of none"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'll add trying to have a suspension that will do everything usually ends up doing mediocre in all areas. What's the saying? "Jack of all trades, master of none"?
I disagree. A properly set up suspension would do well in most situations and excelent in other.
My Dodge handles as well off- road as well as my Frontier.
Runs 80 mph down washboard roads with complete control.
Super comfortable on single lane roads in Mexico and streets and freeways here.
I did major work to my 92 Ford diesel but driving 15-16 hours straight to my place in Mexico killed me.Reason I bought the Dodge.
I use it as a "chase" truck with all the tools and equipment.
No problem towing.I run airbags since I run a progressive leaf pack.
My Bilstein 7100 are old and rusty and just asked my friend to order 2.5 Kings.They should improve by running longer and faster without fading. Although never had problems with the 7100.
The front suspension system is a 5 link, same as a Jeep.It would be able to do some mild crawling.
Could improve the suspension even more with by- pass shocks but it's fine.
 

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I disagree. A properly set up suspension would do well in most situations and excelent in other.
My Dodge handles as well off- road as well as my Frontier.
Runs 80 mph down washboard roads with complete control.
Super comfortable on single lane roads in Mexico and streets and freeways here.
I did major work to my 92 Ford diesel but driving 15-16 hours straight to my place in Mexico killed me.Reason I bought the Dodge.
I use it as a "chase" truck with all the tools and equipment.
No problem towing.I run airbags since I run a progressive leaf pack.
My Bilstein 7100 are old and rusty and just asked my friend to order 2.5 Kings.They should improve by running longer and faster without fading. Although never had problems with the 7100.
The front suspension system is a 5 link, same as a Jeep.It would be able to do some mild crawling.
Could improve the suspension even more with by- pass shocks but it's fine.
The caveat being that YOU know how suspensions work. The general population seems to not understand much if anything about them and tend to throw parts on without much thought of tuning or trial and error.
 

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I personally think the biggest issue is the user not being realistic with how they use the vehicle, hence resulting in a very poorly valved suspension for the conditions and driving style.


As an example...and just thinking out loud;

For instance, a lot of mid west guys end up with the 2.5" coiloves set up for desert running because they want "the best" for offroading. But the only use they see is for fire roads or mall crawling, so now the driver complains that the ride is harsh or stiff over speed bumps and pot holes. As it should be; it is designed to go over bumps at speed so will actually be rather harsh at slow speeds.

in my opinion this user would be much more suited to a 2.0 shock retaining the stock valving and spring rate, but maybe add an air bump for the unexpected hard hits when offroad. Bigger isn't always better.
To me that's not necessarily poor suspension performance, it's just choosing the wrong suspension type for the actual intended usage. Like when lowered car peeps would buy the most expensive race coilovers to slam their car, then wonder why their teeth are rattling when driving over an expansion joint on the street. Those expensive coilovers aren't "poor suspension" at all - it was, if anything, a poor choice of parts by the user.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The caveat being that YOU know how suspensions work. The general population seems to not understand much if anything about them and tend to throw parts on without much thought of tuning or trial and error.[/QUOTE

At the time I didn't but I had friends that did.
Tim Sanchez(he works for Cameron Steele's Desert Assasin now)was a friend of mine and was heavy into Dodges.
Told me about KORE suspensions.
Back then you could talk to Kent Kroeker directly and pick his brain.
Same as Greg at PRG.
He asked me a ton of questions and gave me what I needed.
I just checked his website and he does'nt sell the race suspensions anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
The bachelor party at San Felipe this weekend.
The tow vehicle lost it's starter.

I guess I can only post this video on my Facebook page, or I just don't know how .
Tried posting from Nick's page. Same thing so I rather my page is posted .
Ben texted me and he thinks my problem is adjusting the by-pass,
Ordering my shocks also.
Ordering a lot of stuff especially not knowing I will be able to drive.
 
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