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Need to replace Spider Gears - help finding parts

6K views 14 replies 5 participants last post by  Hawairish 
#1 ·
Pulling away from a stop sign onto the highway, we were rewarded with an alarming series of bangs coming from the rear end of my 2008 Frontier. I dropped it off at the local grease shop, where the mechanic told me that the spider gears were out. He recommended replacing the whole rear end rather than just the spider gears, so his staff have been looking for a salvage. The best price he's found is well over $2k for a unit with over 200,000 miles on it, and it just goes up from there. That's all before paying to get it here (southwest Montana) and the labor to put it in.

Does that seem accurate? Do you agree with his assessment that it's a better choice to replace the whole rear end? I think his rationale was that it's so labor intensive to deal with the gears that it's more straightforward to deal with the whole unit.

What other options are there? Are there any aftermarket parts packages that would work?

I don't know enough about the differential that I can make much of a judgment myself. I didn't even know what a spider gear was until I broke 'em!
 
#2 ·
Cossack....have you tried searching under Car-Part.Com's website??? It's a website that lists all the auto salvage yards in the United States that offers available parts off of wrecked / salvaged vehicles.

You'll need to know a little bit more information about what specific rear axle assembly, (2 wheel drive VS 4 wheel drive, gear ratio, etc), your model year truck uses & whether your truck is a short-bed or long-bed as the Car-Part website will offer you different choices when conducting your search. You''ll see as you navigate the site.

Prices can vary from $500 dollars thru $1800 dollars, (not including taxes & shipping), depending on mileage & model year vehicle it came off of.

Anyhow, hope this helps.... Good Luck!!!
 
#3 ·
Cossack....have you tried searching under Car-Part.Com's website??? It's a website that lists all the auto salvage yards in the United States that offers available parts off of wrecked / salvaged vehicles.

You'll need to know a little bit more information about what specific rear axle assembly, (2 wheel drive VS 4 wheel drive, gear ratio, etc), your model year truck uses & whether your truck is a short-bed or long-bed as the Car-Part website will offer you different choices when conducting your search. You''ll see as you navigate the site.

Prices can vary from $500 dollars thru $1800 dollars, (not including taxes & shipping), depending on mileage & model year vehicle it came off of.

Anyhow, hope this helps.... Good Luck!!!
Thanks! That's really helpful. Honestly, though, I'm not quite sure what part I'm looking for. There's no "rear differential assembly" or "spider gears" - and, as you're probably inferring by now, I'm car stupid - so any guidance is helpful.

Oh, and not that you need to know necessarily, but it's a 4x4 long bed quad cab. I think that's not helping me find parts, since I think the long bed is less common.
 
#4 ·
Cossack....nothing to be embarrassed about...we ALL started out ignorant about cars. Some of us were just fortunate enough to have someone,(s) mentor us about cars as we grew. Others learned thru the "hard knocks" of car ownership, or were fortunate enough to find a kind, knowledgeable mechanic that was kind enough to "school us" about cars. And some of us are even now, STILL learning about cars....there's soo much information out there & lots to learn.

Forgot to ask you, is your Frontier manual transmission or automatic transmission?? Because you have the 4X4 longbed model you are looking for a rear axle that has a 139.9 wheelbase. Not sure if your differential has the 3.36 ratio, (automatic transmission), or the 3.69 ratio, (manual transmission).

If you should happen to call an auto salvage yard & mention that you are looking for the entire rear end assembly, most would understand you are looking for the rear axle which usually includes the rear differential assembly. Not sure where in southwest Montana you are at, (rural area, small town, or city), but if you are willing to spend a day driving, you might be able to find a auto salvage yard in your neck of the woods that has your part in stock at a affordable price to you. But in your case, because of the longer wheelbase, it sounds like you have the "unicorn" rear differential. Not that many of them out there & are harder to find. That's probably why your mechanic quoted you such a high price.

If you think your mechanic's prices are somewhat high for the part & repair, you might want to consider looking for a mechanic that specialises in rear differentials - usually places that set up & fix off-road vehicles. Since your Frontier is a 4X4 model, you might be able to find a shop that is close to you that does that. They might be able to locate aftermarket parts that they can use to fix your rear differential, (spider gears), at a price that you might find more agreeable than your mechanic.

Anyhow, hope this helps....Good Luck with the repair.
 
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#5 ·
For that sort of money, I'd just get an ARB locker (or whatever other locker/LSD options exist), even if you never plan to use it.

But, no, I totally disagree with the assessment to replace the entire axle. For failed spider gears? That's an absurd approach, especially if the ring and pinion gears survived (the ratio doesn't matter unless they're damaged). Even swapping in another carrier is a no-brainer operation. Even if the R&P needed replacing, that's a standard shop job. It's understandable if that shop can't do gear setups, but find a shop that can.

Still...from what I see with your partial vehicle information (need more information about transmission and trim; a VIN would help), NissanPartsDeal.com shows the spider gears for the open diff being available for $40/ea before shipping. Can even get them on eBay from another reputable dealership, Courtesy Nissan (TX). NPD also shows all the open diff carrier internals being available. If only the carrier internal pieces need replacing, this job is trivial. No gear setup, just part swaps, a new gasket, and some gear oil. Tow the thing home and DIY.

I can post up some p/ns once you've confirmed more details about your truck. You should get visual confirmation of what is damaged...should be a simple request since its got a diff cover.
 
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#6 ·
Can you post a link on the spider gear.

Though replacing an entire rear axle assembly does seem ridiculous, it is something I can do in my driveway in an afternoon. The last time I took apart a diff it took me 3 weeks to get it back together.

Adding an ARB locker to the rear end is a good idea if you need a locker. But again it is time consuming and detailed worked, and will end up costing as much as a used rear axle.
 
#11 ·
I lock up pretty much the same time I shift into 4low. I don't sit and spin and then lock up. That is how you break stuff. I also try not to lock on the fly. But sometimes it takes some driving before it will lock up. Deff don't try to lock up mid obstacle.

I think most of the 2 spider failures occurred when the diff is opened. From my understanding the pin type locker bypasses the spiders when locked.

Lunchbox lockers on the rear end is said to be a handfull.
 
#12 ·
Right on, you’ve got the idea. On-the-fly engagement is fine at low speed, straight line rolling just not mid-obstacle with wheels spinning.

And correct, some lockers can bypass the spiders when locked, but others (like air lockers) rely on holding a side gear stationary, which then applies force across all the spiders (which is true when unlocked and traveling straight, they’re just allowed to rotate otherwise). I’ve not handled an M226 locker before, but the pics I see suggest similar operation. Lunchboxes lack spiders, of course…they’re manageable in rear applications, just not suitable for all climates…or those with a heavy foot around corners, lol.

Anxious to see the OP’s reply. Hopefully it’s as simple as the spiders, so I can just pull and send some.
 
#13 ·
Sorry I haven't responded yet - been busy and then got sick.
Anyway, the VIN is 1N6AD09W88C423027
Automatic Transmission. I don't recall which trim package - all the docs in my file say "SE/LE" and I can't find where I hid the title from myself. I'll call the shop tomorrow and ask for photos and try to get more info on details such as if the ring and pinion gears are trashed. I know they've been swamped with work (the only shop in town) and my trucks been sitting long enough that I think they'll be glad to have help tracking parts anyway.

Thanks for all of the useful replies so far. I'm learning a lot.
 
#14 ·
I talked to the shop today. I totally forgot to check if it's LE or SE, and couldn't get under it for photos, but they told me all the spider gears are ruined. He said Ring and pinion gears are "scored," and might be useable but he recommends replacing them too.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the VIN @Cossack . Here's what I can tell you:
  • Parts.nissanusa.com and vindecoderz.com both show it as an LE, though not too relevant here. Main thing to know was engine, cab configuration, drivetrain, and transmission to determine axle and gear ratio.
  • NissanPartsDeal.com lists the axle as being the C200, but you should be able to confirm by comparing pics of the bolt pattern of the diff cover.
  • The 2008 FSM indicates that your truck has 3.357 gears, which is p/n 38100-0F36A (replaces 38100-2C360, 38100-1C360, 38100-0B36A) and appears to still be available new from Nissan for $700. These links below will show you all Nissan and Infiniti vehicles that had those gears:
  • Notably, all of those Nissan and Infiniti vehicles listed, all but the Frontier use the R200 differential, which is a stand-alone differential with detachable CV axles. There's plenty of them on eBay, and they would also have the spider gears and probably several other parts that could be used in your truck, and would be far easier to ship.
  • The spider gears, p/n 38425-21W0A (replaces 38425-21W00) listed previously, appear available from Nissan for $41/ea
Did the mechanic indicate if the R&P gears were scored from the damage/debris, or just in general? How many miles does your truck have? Unless a chunk of material actually got crushed in the teeth (and carnage ensued), or if a smaller piece produced a sizable pit or chip on ring or pinion teeth, I wouldn't bother with them. The side gears may be another story since they're in direct contact with the spider gears, so those should be closely inspected.

Again, if actual damage is just limited to a busted spider gear, this repair is simple. If the mechanic continues to push a more complicated route without physical or visual proof, I'd be cautious.

In hopes of further demystifying this issue (i.e., presuming damage is limited to spider gear), this is basically what you're up against...

Busted spiders gears might look something like this (this is a Nissan H190 3rd member that came from one of my trucks):



Beyond the initial 'bang' that causes the teeth to sheer off, additional bangs are usually from the side gears trying to engage into the remnants of the side gears, which may or may not be turning (depending if your truck is turning or going straight, respectively).

To remove the carrier, you pull the axle shafts out about 2", undo the carrier cap bolts, and pull/pry the carrier out (holding the carrier stationary and rotating the pinion also helps). Shims (hidden by the caps) will come out, too; keep everything on the correct sides (i.e., left side vs. right side).

With ring gear removed, your carrier will look similar to this (this is a pre-MY05 R200/C200 2-pinion open carrier):



The spider gears shown on the pinion/cross-shaft, side gears at top and bottom. The side gears shown are the exact ones you'd need.

The ring gear gets removed because it'll likely obstruct removal of the cross-shaft, spiders, and side gears. A long nose punch through this hole on the ring gear bolt side will push the roll pin (p/n 38428-U1500, should be replaced with a new one) out of the cross-shaft.





Push the cross-shaft out of the carrier, then rotate a side gear and the spider gears will just roll towards the opening along with some thrust washers. Clean everything, apply some gear oil to all friction surfaces, and reassemble. The 2008 FSM has all the torque specs in the Driveline chapter, C200 section (ring gear bolts: 58 ft-lbs then 31°-36° extra rotation; bearing cap bolts: 69 ft-lbs).

Again, no gear setup is required because nothing relating to the gears should have changed. Of course, if the R&P do need replacement, then it'll need to be setup correctly. The FSM has those instructions.
 
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