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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried using an octane exceeding 93? Like maybe 101 or 108? How would our motors respond to a higher octane........Would there be a slight difference or it just not worth the hassle?
 

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I can't see any advantage unless the timing were advanced too...and even then timing can only be advanced so much in our stock engines to gain benefits. The hassle it would be to find and pay for such a higher octane fuel would not nearly be worth the minimal power gains.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Idk if they can but Im gonna see if Uprev can set a 108 octane tune in my top 5 im curious, an extra .1 off in the 1/4 mi in our trucks to me is worth 20 bucks for 2 gallons lol itll only be a 1 time thing
 

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gears will get you down the track better then higher octane. you can run 4.10s out of an XE, a 350z LSD and look into some nice sticky tires along with some weight loss if you want to go faster.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ill pass on 4:10's gas mileage and top end will go way down, but Im looking into weight reduction as well.... besides the tailgate and spare tire what else could take out that equals some extra weight....
 

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Read the thread "real world gas mileage" in the general section.

In a nutshell, Higher Octane fuel will not give you performance on it's own, and as someone else said, there's not a whole lot that can be done with the stock internals to warrant anything over 91 octane (and an ECU flash), and you'd get better performance from bolt ons and gears...

Ill pass on 4:10's gas mileage and top end will go way down, but Im looking into weight reduction as well.... besides the tailgate and spare tire what else could take out that equals some extra weight....
Bumpers, tailgate, bed liner, spare tire, swap the exhaust for something lighter, lighter wheels, lighter tires, possibly swap out rotors for two piece units with aluminum hats (if they exist). Lose that bed cover in your pic if I'm seeing it correctly...

After that, you're stripping interior. Maybe swap the bed for something custom made...preferrably carbon fiber...

The truck is made from steel, not a whole lot that can be done.
 

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you cant take that much weight off the rear as the trade off is a lot less traction with out the spare or gate the trucks become nose heavy big time.
 

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Let me say this about that.......

I have worked at a proformance-only-shop for motorcycles for about 5 years. We have dyno's flow benches, the works. Are dyno has every bell and whissle on it. Exhaust sniffer (to see the efficancy of the burn) fuel flow indicator (how much fuel your using) detonation sensors....on and on.

We have also tested many, many fuels.(all from the fuel company VP feuls) And believe it or not we had some gains as high as 17%!!!!

But I will add IT WAS NOT THE OCTANE that gave it the extra "pop". Octane is mainly there to resist dentionation. (under very high compresion, the fuel can ignite on its own, with out the help of the spark plug, thus starting to burn to early in the stroke)
It is the quality of the fuel that gives it the extra push.

Fuel with lead in it for example, actully burns. Gas out of the pump..."pops" so to speak. Good quallity fuel burns, and pushes on the piston 5x longer then just the "pop" from pump gas.

The best fuel we tested from VP fuels was a fuel called U4. It stands for Ultimate four (stroke). There is also U2. Which is ultimate two (stroke) Both of these fuels added almost 20%!!!! And again, the octane in these fuels is only 112, If I remember right. That is not where the power comes from. The octane is just there so users can run high compresion with out risking detonation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
you cant take that much weight off the rear as the trade off is a lot less traction with out the spare or gate the trucks become nose heavy big time.

I do have Slicks so traction should not be a problem....

Where could I get a hold of VP fuel???? Local pump or a race store from a track Im guessing
 

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I do have Slicks so traction should not be a problem....

Where could I get a hold of VP fuel???? Local pump or a race store from a track Im guessing
then just pull off the bed and see what happens lol
 

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Let me say this about that.......

I have worked at a proformance-only-shop for motorcycles for about 5 years. We have dyno's flow benches, the works. Are dyno has every bell and whissle on it. Exhaust sniffer (to see the efficancy of the burn) fuel flow indicator (how much fuel your using) detonation sensors....on and on.

We have also tested many, many fuels.(all from the fuel company VP feuls) And believe it or not we had some gains as high as 17%!!!!

But I will add IT WAS NOT THE OCTANE that gave it the extra "pop". Octane is mainly there to resist dentionation. (under very high compresion, the fuel can ignite on its own, with out the help of the spark plug, thus starting to burn to early in the stroke)
It is the quality of the fuel that gives it the extra push.

Fuel with lead in it for example, actully burns. Gas out of the pump..."pops" so to speak. Good quallity fuel burns, and pushes on the piston 5x longer then just the "pop" from pump gas.

The best fuel we tested from VP fuels was a fuel called U4. It stands for Ultimate four (stroke). There is also U2. Which is ultimate two (stroke) Both of these fuels added almost 20%!!!! And again, the octane in these fuels is only 112, If I remember right. That is not where the power comes from. The octane is just there so users can run high compresion with out risking detonation.
The only time I've seen fuel give gains without anything else...is when the fuel itself is oxygenated.
 

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gears will get you down the track better then higher octane. you can run 4.10s out of an XE, a 350z LSD and look into some nice sticky tires along with some weight loss if you want to go faster.
did anyone confirm that the 350z LSD actually works in our c200k's we know we can interchange gears but i wasn't sure that anyone actually put a 350z LSD in or confirmed it would work without a doubt
 

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Discussion Starter #13
lol hahah i think id go sideways down the track lol
 

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The only time I've seen fuel give gains without anything else...is when the fuel itself is oxygenated.
Well I dont know "what youve seen" But I have clocked in over 30 hours on just testing fuels, On a dyno. No seat of your pants dyno and no using the odometer and divid by gals to get MPG. A dyno with a computer thats only job in life is crunching numbers for the dyno. Oxygenated fuels may produce slightly more HP, But the will detonate and self destruct a motor with high compression. Thats a fact.

I did for get to mention that the fuel U4 that I was talking about eirlier is about $22.50.....A gal!!! ($112.50 for a 5 gal pal. The smallest amount you can buy) But how much is 20% more HP worth to you?
 

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i'd like to note that i'm fairly sure that the VP fuels have 0% ethanol added to them as opposed to pump gas. that alone could have a bit of an impact on how the fuel is burning. just something to consider and factor in, not sure of how much of a factor that is but i'm sure its a factor
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Is the 20% more...... at the crank or at the wheels??

Cause ill probably be the same as Rodney @ the wheels hp wise...So thats roughly 270 and 20% of that is wha 50 hp??? (just guesstimating NO calculator used) So that'll land me at 300-310rwhp

And Im sure if I played with timing I could add some more hp outta that...... and for 120 bucks to run a low 13 with a Frontier is definitely worth it to me!!!!!!
 

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i'd like to note that i'm fairly sure that the VP fuels have 0% ethanol added to them as opposed to pump gas. that alone could have a bit of an impact on how the fuel is burning. just something to consider and factor in, not sure of how much of a factor that is but i'm sure its a factor
You are 100% correct. Zero ethanol. From what I have read and B.S. with other mechanics, ethanol can rob UPTO 5%.

Is the 20% more...... at the crank or at the wheels??

Cause ill probably be the same as Rodney @ the wheels hp wise...So thats roughly 270 and 20% of that is wha 50 hp??? (just guesstimating NO calculator used) So that'll land me at 300-310rwhp

And Im sure if I played with timing I could add some more hp outta that...... and for 120 bucks to run a low 13 with a Frontier is definitely worth it to me!!!!!!
At the shop we do not have a motor dyno, (fly wheel HP) we only have a chassis dyno (rear wheel HP) So yes, that 20% is at the rear wheels.
But let me remind you..... All my testing has been on motorcycles. I would guess the results will be simular, but not exact. Motorcycles do not have the ability to adj, fuel and spark curves on the fly like in autos. I dont know what are trucks will do with high quality fuels. Will the O2 sensor see it and the computor may change settings...I dont know. It may change nothing....and the acceleration will give you whip lash, and rip all the hair off you a$$!

And I agree. $112.50 is a small price to pay for 20% gains. Hell, even if it only gives you 10%. Its still worth it! Plus it doesnt have to run like that all the time. A super charger or turbo is putting that extra stress on the motor all the time. With fuel, its just on race day. So no extra ware and tear during the week.
 

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Jordo is absolutley correct about the energy potential of fuels. The right stuff can make a huge improvement.
However,bike engines are different animals. Small displacement, higher rpms, superior volumetric and thermal efficiency.There fuel needs are direct opposite of our trucks. The fuels that work good in a bike are going to require some very expensive and time consuming modifications to work if at all.
We have much lower static compression ratios, way bigger bores with a lot more area to transfer heat, meaning the flame front travels slower.
The ultimate fuels as mentioned all have oxegynating agents such as propylene oxide in them which is not good for something that sits. They are highly vloatile, and deterioate rapidly when exposed to air. Meaning any fuel left in your tank will turn to nasty corrosive crud that will rot your fuel pump, injectors and other expensive parts.
Most have upper chamber lubricants that will wreak havoc on oxygen sensors and cats as well.
Something you may want to consider are the spec fuels for certain classes of SCCAA roadracing or maybe Mazda cup. They are specifically blended for street based 4,6, and small v8 efi engines. They are safe for o2 sensors, non corrosive and do offer good power gains with low tuning if any just because the burn quality is so much better.
Dont let the low octane numbers fool you, this fuel is far better than pump gas. Think of it as comparing a really good Ky. Bourbon, to Colt.45!
Thing to do is contact the VP fuel distributor in your area or call tech services direct, tell them your needs and they can recommend a fuel and or additives for your needs.
You will be far more pleased as just making an expensive and disappointing guess going by numbers you see online.
 
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