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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
so we started to get a nasty groan and squeaking on the 2nd gen in the past couple weeks , i traced it to the heim joints on the UCA's
called greg and he asked if i had the silver heim joints ( said yeah )and he told me that there is a plastic liner that wears out pretty fast and causes this noise
he now has some custom made heim joints that do not have a plastic liner and should last alot longer , i installed mine tonight and no more noise , im just waiting to see how long these ones will go for

also ill get a video up in a few of the tie rod ends , only have 40k on the truck and the pass side was completly shot
http://www.youtube.com/user/neh0209
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yeah i guess thats alright , but its more of a heads up to check them , cause this one seemed like it was about ready to pop out
 

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Yeah that is nasty! I think I will check mine now because when that crap breaks it is a real bad day. A ball joint broke on my Hardbody, carved 3 inch deep grooves into the highway, and stirred up so much dust nobody could see where they were going. I was afraid I was going to get hit after I got it off the road and was being flipped off by kids in car seats (joke).

Thanks for the heads up and making me think about it.
 

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I am at the point where I have to take off the PRG UCA, because of all the clunking.
This is after 2 years and hardly any 4 wheeling at all, a little bit of logging roads and snow in the winter.
The stock UCA will go on while I deal with the Heim joints or whatever else is going on.
PITA!:(
 

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i sprayed mine with some dry lub and squeking went away.
 

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I hate to hear yall arent having good luck. This is why I went with Camburg arms over PRG. He swears up and down heims are better, but everyone in the offroad community seems to disagree. Now there is evidence to support this with. The good thing is, he will make things right. I would have bought PRG arms, but he refused to make a fixed pivot Titan arm like Total Chaos and Camburg has, so I didnt buy from him.
 

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for me I specifically wanted the heim joints to help get the alignment dialed in. if the teflon liner is a consumable Im okay with that.
 

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I have had alignment problems with my PRG UCAs.
the only problem I've had with alingment is that you have to disconect them to adjust them. But once you've got them dialed in they are on the dot.
 

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My alignment w/ the Camburgs is perfect... no adjustment from the upper was needed. Theres alot of adjustment that can be had out of the lower cambolts.
Your fixed joints have more slop, bumpsteer and unwanted suspension movements due to using bushings. Heims have zero slop and movement.

Heims are superior. Look underneath any racecar or trophy truck and you won't find bushings, you'll find heims. They aren't for everyone, sure, but if you want the most precise suspension you have to have them.

To each his own.
 

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Your fixed joints have more slop, bumpsteer and unwanted suspension movements due to using bushings. Heims have zero slop and movement.

Heims are superior. Look underneath any racecar or trophy truck and you won't find bushings, you'll find heims. They aren't for everyone, sure, but if you want the most precise suspension you have to have them.

To each his own.
Do you have Heimed lowers?
 

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Do you have Heimed lowers?
So your argument is that since you can't get heims for every pivot on the entire truck, you might as well not get any heims at all?

If there was a company that made heimed lowers, I'd buy them. Eliminating slop from the upper arm at least halves the amount of total slop between the two arms.

Adding heims for tie rods would make it even better and I'm surprised Greg doesn't sell more of those kits. I'll be doing those in the next round of upgrades.

Plus, heim joints pull the *****es. Almost as much as dimple dies.
 

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It is true that bushing have a small amount of deflection but in a sense that acts like a buffer against harsh jolts. The minimal amount of bushing compression will not even amount to a detectable difference in camber,castor, toe or bumpsteer. A racecar or trophy truck uses heims yes for their superior strength and ease of mounting at bizarre angles but also because they don't worry about creeks or noise and they also change them during each prep because they DO WEAR FASTER than bushings and are EXPENSIVE. For street and even HARD off road use poly bushings are a great choice as they will last an extremely long time, are cheap to replace and when greased are very quiet due to them absorbing road noise. The long travel on my other truck is heimed and it sounds like the truck is going to fall apart. They are almost as loud as my triple bypass's:laugh:

Nick
Your fixed joints have more slop, bumpsteer and unwanted suspension movements due to using bushings. Heims have zero slop and movement.

Heims are superior. Look underneath any racecar or trophy truck and you won't find bushings, you'll find heims. They aren't for everyone, sure, but if you want the most precise suspension you have to have them.

To each his own.
 

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Hiems are better that urethane..period. Urethane works, so does rubber or a handful of other materials. But a bearing works best. The first couple years we used a nylon-lined joint that, although very strong, would often make a squeeking or popping noise after time, maybe a bit less loud than most urethane bushings when they squeek, annoying but plenty strong. We now use a very nice teflon 3-piece heim that, after over 250 sets of arms in the last year, have not had one issue. To repalce the old style hiem with the new style is $80 for all 4 bearings shipped, not sure what urethane bushings are selling for now-days, but I'd bet its about the same price retail (truth is urethane bushing halves cost about $2.00 each, you will need 8 of them, but see what they actually cost to replace). Compare our arms to some others out there, urethane is cheap and easy to use, that is why some builders use it. Urethane is also very compilant and works well when you need a mutil-axis joint (like a traction bar or shackle), but for a single-axis pivot (like our truck's a-arms) Delrin or a bearing is better option.not to mention the fact that if you do bend the frame form a hard hit you can adjust and heims are available through many vendors, you are not stuck with a special bushing. Because bushings require grease, dirt and debris gather in the pivot points and slowly grind the bushings down. This is like the argument for carbs vs injection or better yet, drums vs. disks. As far as noise goes, bearings will transmit more noise, but since most anyone using aftermarket upper arms will most likley have a coilover, and the shock is a much more direct path for road noise to follow, the arm is really inconsequencial at this point. Some one brought up Camburgs arms, Camburgs best kits run uniballs on the lower arms too!!! I personally have heim'd uppers and coilovers on all my trucks, and they are as quiet as any urethane bushed arms, I know because I have run both other brands Titan arms on my Titan and the other Frontier arm on my Xterra. I have also ridden in a few hundred different Frontier/Xterras with either sets of arms...there is no noise difference.
I also want it to be known that I could sell brand "T" arms and actually make more profit than my own arms, (dumb for business I know). Why do I build and sell my own arms instead of the others, because I belive that we need to offer the most/best product to the customer at a given price point. I am not obligated to sell only brand T, I, or D, I have no allegence to any company, I am not part of a brand-loyalty-cartell where I have to suggest one brand over another for special favors. If brand K built a better arm than ours for less money, I would sell that instead. Maybe we will offer a urethane pivot arm with a 1" uniball...since its the same as our titan bearing and the urethne is the same as out titan shackles....hmmm could probably build and sell those for $450/set shipped.

http://www.chaosfab.com/product/96504/96504H_kit.jpg
I belive these are $900/set

http://www.iconvehicledynamics.org/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=92
note, these arms use the same joint we do.
 

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This debate has been going on ever since there was a choice for two different control arms.

Both are great but neither could be the best, everybody has different needs so one product couldn't be the best for everybody.

Both these have been out for a few years so it's cleaner to see The facts. Hiems are stronger but they they do wear fast.

The bushings seem to last longer.

Presoonally the Hiems joint wouldn't work for me since mud and salt would eat them up even faster then normal wear.
 
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