[The other Sean]

You know what I look forward to? Self driving cars on icy roads.... I don't think you can program a computer for that. Especially if it's patchy ice.

Too much of the self-driving stuff relies on reacting to other vehicles around you. But at 2am on a country road, your cars computer doesn't get to see another car hit that patch of ice first. It might assume the speed limit is just fine, when reality is you should be driving a lot slower.

Actually, you can. The VDC system already in the truck does this. Saved my skin on an icy bridge deck. If it was up to my skills, I would have spun out and crashed. But, slip light came on (before I felt any slide) and the truck crab walked to the right (left curving bridge deck) while keeping the nose of the truck pointed forward.

Also, your truck's cruise control turns off at the first sign of wheel slip, so, once again, the technology is already here and proven.

Probably what will happen is in the first instance of poor traction, the self driving vehicle will default to manual mode only and the driver will have to take control of the controls. I highly doubt the steering wheel and pedals will disappear from said cars.

 

[Clint]

Actually, you can. The VDC system already in the truck does this. Saved my skin on an icy bridge deck. If it was up to my skills, I would have spun out and crashed. But, slip light came on (before I felt any slide) and the truck crab walked to the right (left curving bridge deck) while keeping the nose of the truck pointed forward.

Also, your truck's cruise control turns off at the first sign of wheel slip, so, once again, the technology is already here and proven.

Probably what will happen is in the first instance of poor traction, the self driving vehicle will default to manual mode only and the driver will have to take control of the controls. I highly doubt the steering wheel and pedals will disappear from said cars.

What part of self driving dont you get? Many of this crap they are speaking of has no driver or controls. Read some the the more recent articles.
It's lunacy if other people are still out piloting their own way. Screw google, amazon and apple and these other money grubbing companies who want to rule it all. It's only a matter of time until ruled a monopoly and then forced to split up.

Clint

Auto makers like blind spot sensors (and rear view cameras), because it frees them of the need to design vehicles with good rear visibility. Basically, they can design purely for style, compensating for any blind spots with technology.

I try my absolute best to park my Challenger so I leave going forward. Backing up in it isn't a comforting event.

Clint

 

[93hardbody]

I'm enjoying this discussion, I hope the rest of you are. I think one of the reasons rear cameras and sensors have become more common is the roll-over crash testing and insurance ratings that have led to beefier C-pillars and therefore narrower rear windows. Another reason is fuel economy redesign with high trunks (or in the case of pickup trucks, high sides) that have shrunk the view to the rear to the point that it isn't safe to back up without help from technology.
A few years ago we got a rental car, a P/T Cruiser, and it had abysmal sight to the rear- huge blind spots- you really couldn't use reverse gear safely. I think sensors and cameras are a patch to help offset this design flaw in modern car design. It's not that drivers are no longer able to drive skillfully, it's that car designs have changed.
It's a pleasure to get into an older car and be able to see all around, to have command of the experience of driving, but it seems insurance companies and the pursuit of safety have become a dominant force. In the arena of vehicle design, it seems we're giving up freedom for security.

 

[m_bisson]

Oh my God... If I was given a pt cruiser as a rental I'd probably just commit suicide.

 

[FitzIngarage]

Blind spot sensors are the dumbest thing... Turn and look over your shoulder. I agree, all these drivers aids do is make people lazy.

My wife is a good blind spot monitoring device; she's kept me from two near collisions with small black cars riding in my Frontier's passenger side blind spot at night. Rather scary. I've re-adjusted my side mirrors to help. Her new VW Golf has blind spot monitoring, but it activates (with a small blinking light on each side mirror) only if you activate the turn signal.

Regarding automatic braking, I read a post on a vehicle forum where an owner's brakes went into emergency on the Interstate when a piece of road trash blew over the sensor in the grille and covered it. Yikes.

 

[nmum]

I think I might share views with Clint in some ways. Where I just want a nice basic car/truck, where if I turn the key it starts the engine right up and I can get going. Kind of miss the cars from the 80s and 90s but I might be more biased for that era as that's when I first started driving and getting into cars.

One issue with all of this granny technology is that it will add to the cost to the vehicles.

I forgot where I read it but there was one scenario someone described that if you're approaching a stopped or slow vehicle and want to change lanes when there is little room in the next lane to switch over to. The car may end up slowing you down as you approach the vehicle in front of you, where you really wanted to keep accelerating so when you switch lanes and in front of another car, you'll still be at speed.

When I used to drive cars I never really saw the point of backup cameras. With the Frontier or any other truck I may get in the future, I think it will be a must have for me. As I've run into issues in trying to parallel park and can't see the car behind me because it's too low to the ground. The blind side indicators might not bother me so much because it doesn't affect the control or driving of the car.

I'm not totally sold on airbags as it looks like it really takes people out. But who knows if things would've been worse if there wasn't an airbag. Although one case was someone working on the dashboard and setting it off by accident.

I had a HHR as a rental before. I considered it as a replacement for the Frontier briefly before and was kind of disappointed with it when actually driving it. But in some ways it was fun to drive. It seemed to be little and peppy, especially compared to the Frontier, and it was a lot of fun to zoom around it and flicking it around. I was hoping for the same type of experience when driving a Rogue as a rental later on. But was kind of disappointed on how sluggish and heavy the Rogue felt. nto sure if it was the CVT engine or something making it not be able to feel the acceleration or something.

 

[vjmvjm]

I'm not totally sold on airbags as it looks like it really takes people out. But who knows if things would've been worse if there wasn't an airbag. Although one case was someone working on the dashboard and setting it off by accident.

It's all about averages. Seat belts kill, air bags kill, ABS kills, etc. However, they all save more lives than not. Every design element is a balancing act.

I'd much rather take my chances with autonomous vehicles than with the inebriated, tired, distracted driver in the car next to me.

Vic

 

[The other Sean]

You know, people shook their fists at the thought of AM radios in a car 90 years ago. The distraction was going to cause accidents and kill everyone.

People shook their fists at halogen headlights when they first came out. They were going to blind oncoming drivers, cause accidents and kill everyone....

 

[ginbak]

I'm an admitted curmudgeon. I don't like the overboard safety features on my cars. I just want a simple vehicle. Where I live, in rural central PA, a full sized truck costs more than many houses. And these folks need trucks!

BTW - I would never ride in a self driving car around here. We've got blind curves, hills, farm equipment, amish buggies, snow, ice, washouts, no berms, single lane bridges, single lane tunnels, railroad crossings, and more. No way.

 

[93hardbody]

People shook their fists at halogen headlights when they first came out. They were going to blind oncoming drivers, cause accidents and kill everyone....

Halogen headlights do blind oncoming drivers, and blinded drivers are more prone to accidents. Ideally, all blinded drivers should default to a head on collision with the oncoming halogen headlights, but that's probably not the way it works. You never know what's coming at you behind that assault of obnoxiousness, but it could be a 3 ton SUV.

I understand why the drivers with the halogen headlights like them, but they should be outlawed.

 

[The other Sean]

Halogen headlights do blind oncoming drivers, and blinded drivers are more prone to accidents. Ideally, all blinded drivers should default to a head on collision with the oncoming halogen headlights, but that's probably not the way it works. You never know what's coming at you behind that assault of obnoxiousness, but it could be a 3 ton SUV.

I understand why the drivers with the halogen headlights like them, but they should be outlawed.

Halogen bulbs, not HID or LED's that people install. I'm speaking of when they came to be in the U.S. in 1983 and people complained about them in comparison to standard incandescent bulbs. 1983....

 

[m_bisson]

HID headlights are fine as long as they have the proper reflectors. The problem starts when someone puts an HID bulb into a halogen headlight. The reflector doesn't focus the light properly and you get that stupid glare.

 

[93hardbody]

Halogen bulbs, not HID or LED's that people install. I'm speaking of when they came to be in the U.S. in 1983 and people complained about them in comparison to standard incandescent bulbs. 1983....

You're right, it's not halogen bulbs that are a problem. AM radios, however . . . .

 

[93hardbody]

Regarding automatic braking, I read a post on a vehicle forum where an owner's brakes went into emergency on the Interstate when a piece of road trash blew over the sensor in the grille and covered it. Yikes.

I'd want to see another source for this story, scary as it sounds. Fact or fiction?

 

[93hardbody]

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on the technology I found interesting:

"The findings indicate that two crash-avoidance features provide the biggest benefits: (a) autonomous braking that would brake on its own, if the driver does not, to avoid a forward collision, and (b) adaptive headlights that would shift the headlights in the direction the driver steers. They found lane departure systems to be not helpful, and perhaps harmful, at the circa 2012 stage of development.

In the 2016 Berlin terror attack a truck was driven into the Berlin Christmas market and was brought to a stop by its automatic braking system In a study of police-reported crashes, automatic emergency braking was found to reduce the incidence of rear-end crashes by 39 percent.[16] A 2012 study suggests that if all cars feature the system, it will reduce accidents by up to 27 percent and save up to 8,000 lives per year on European roads."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_avoidance_system

 

[The other Sean]

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on the technology I found interesting:

"The findings indicate that two crash-avoidance features provide the biggest benefits: (a) autonomous braking that would brake on its own, if the driver does not, to avoid a forward collision, and (b) adaptive headlights that would shift the headlights in the direction the driver steers. They found lane departure systems to be not helpful, and perhaps harmful, at the circa 2012 stage of development.

In the 2016 Berlin terror attack a truck was driven into the Berlin Christmas market and was brought to a stop by its automatic braking system In a study of police-reported crashes, automatic emergency braking was found to reduce the incidence of rear-end crashes by 39 percent.[16] A 2012 study suggests that if all cars feature the system, it will reduce accidents by up to 27 percent and save up to 8,000 lives per year on European roads."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_avoidance_system

Just keep in mind how long ago 2012 is when the topic is computer technology....

 

[firemanspock]

While there might be benefits with implementing it under the conditions we have now, my argument was that by doing this some people might get more complacent and overconfident. It has the potential to make some people more careless, seeing as they would have an added safety net. In the end, chances are the overall numbers would stay the same, or very close. And as far as the studies, who conducted them? Who studied the police reports? Who said that these systems make such a huge difference? Someone impartial, or someone involved in making these products, and who stands to profit from it? Or were they funded by people who stand to make the profit? Call me paranoid, but I've seen useless "safety" products in different applications that were pushed by the manufacturers. People creating a demand for one of their products so they can profit from the rest of us. Im not saying this is the absolute truth behind this story, I'm just curious about knowing more before I put my faith in something that someone else swears by.

 

[93hardbody]

It has the potential to make some people more careless, seeing as they would have an added safety net. In the end, chances are the overall numbers would stay the same, or very close.

I agree with you in that it seems technology is adopted more quickly than is justified in some cases, a case of we can, so we will- rather than we need, so we will.
I'm not certain how this feature works as compared to other similar sounding technologies like adaptive cruise control that includes the ability to bring the vehicle to a stop, but I'm picturing it as less comprehensive- not a crutch to take over regular driving, but a backup to help prevent collisions, or at least make them a little less severe.
A few years ago I was hit from behind by a motorist when the light had turned green but for some reason things didn't start moving when he expected- he was obviously running his mouth to the rear seat passengers and hit the gas even though traffic was still stopped. The insurance company came close to totaling my car. Technology like this would be able to prevent those kind of accidents. I don't know if this driver would have been more careless if his car had been equipped with this technology, he was pretty careless already.

 

[firemanspock]

A few years ago I was hit from behind by a motorist when the light had turned green but for some reason things didn't start moving when he expected- he was obviously running his mouth to the rear seat passengers and hit the gas even though traffic was still stopped. The insurance company came close to totaling my car. Technology like this would be able to prevent those kind of accidents. I don't know if this driver would have been more careless if his car had been equipped with this technology, he was pretty careless already.

Sorry that happened. Unfortunately, I see a lot of cases like that. They think a green light means you are required to hit the gas. They don't understand that it just means your lanes have the right of way. And you're right, that kind of system would have prevented a collision like that, but common sense would prevent many more. I've almost been hit a few times while working an accident scene by people who hit the gas when they saw green. I guess my issue is I'd like to see a world where people are held responsible for their carelessness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FitzIngarage]

I'd want to see another source for this story, scary as it sounds. Fact or fiction?

That story was in my post and you have a good point. An intelligent and obvious design would have the auto-braking system ignore presence of objects within inches of the sensor. There's no small amount of roadside trash blowing around.