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hey guys, ive been wondering what the difference of the two well besides the fact that one fires down and one fires up thanks!
down fire vs. standard sub boxes?
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thank ya todd, i think im gunna get the downfire box cuz yes i agree it would be better for protection.
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as long as you keep junk from getting down there. speaker grilles can offer protection no matter which direction you fire the sub.
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Downfire or firing the sub away from you will reduce some of the rattling, chatter-ish noise you hear when a subwoofer is hitting, usually at higher volumes. It may make the sub sound more dull with less range, but can clean up the sound a bit.
Have you ever cranked up the volume and put your ear next to the sub? You can hear rattles, distortion and other noises coming from the sub itself. This is not noticeable if you are sitting far away from your sub (ie: sub in the back of an SUV), but if you have the sub facing you in a small cabin 2ft away from your ears (ie: a king cab truck), it will be easier to hear these sounds. Firing the sub upwards or out into the cabin tends to move more cabin air and may feel like a stronger hit/pound...it can also make the bass more crisp sounding....but again, you may hear the unpleasant sounds that the sub is producing.
My suggestion is to just get a basic box that fits, and move it around in the cabin, facing it in different directions until you get the sound you want. I've tried out 3 different box set-ups for my current sub, in every possible direction in the back of my king cab truck ported/vented and sealed. I probably went through 3 or 4 different boxes for my previous subs that I had in this truck. Every sub/box combo will sound slightly different. Also, ported vs. sealed can make a huge difference in sound. For example, when my sub was in a sealed box, I prefer it facing the back of the seat....in the ported box, I prefer it facing out into the open/upwards because it soundsfeels much more powerful when its moving all that air.
Have you ever cranked up the volume and put your ear next to the sub? You can hear rattles, distortion and other noises coming from the sub itself. This is not noticeable if you are sitting far away from your sub (ie: sub in the back of an SUV), but if you have the sub facing you in a small cabin 2ft away from your ears (ie: a king cab truck), it will be easier to hear these sounds. Firing the sub upwards or out into the cabin tends to move more cabin air and may feel like a stronger hit/pound...it can also make the bass more crisp sounding....but again, you may hear the unpleasant sounds that the sub is producing.
My suggestion is to just get a basic box that fits, and move it around in the cabin, facing it in different directions until you get the sound you want. I've tried out 3 different box set-ups for my current sub, in every possible direction in the back of my king cab truck ported/vented and sealed. I probably went through 3 or 4 different boxes for my previous subs that I had in this truck. Every sub/box combo will sound slightly different. Also, ported vs. sealed can make a huge difference in sound. For example, when my sub was in a sealed box, I prefer it facing the back of the seat....in the ported box, I prefer it facing out into the open/upwards because it soundsfeels much more powerful when its moving all that air.
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well since my 07 is a cc i dont have much room so its just a down fire or up fire under the seat. i just want a good clean crisp bass sound with the subs.
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Well, I have to disagree here.
You can not "muffle" sound that is not directional in the first place such as low end bass unless you are impeding the cone excursion.
Ported, I'd go along with the idea of the port being compromised by blocking it's output pressure.
A sealed enclosure not so much.
That being said, when my truck is sealed, all windows up and the sunroof closed, the bass sounds quite a bit different than if one/all of those is/are open.
Now, block the mids or highs and I'd go along with the statement of "muffling" sound.
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how are you going to do that? run tiny subs?
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Todd, I was using the term "muffle" in a different context. I'm talking about placing the subwoofer in different locations to muffle or reduce the distortion/rattling sounds that you can hear while sitting close to the sub. I'm not saying the bass produced will be any more quiet or loud...i'm just saying you won't hear the annoying rattles/flapping sounds as much if the subwoofer is under the seat.
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results may vary. when i had my 18 in my xterra, facing back made the hatch rattle. facing up made the roof rattle. facing forward made the seat rattle. i never tried facing down, but im sure the floor would have rattled. to my ears, subs sound the most natural when they are given the space they need, and not by pointing them at the floor.
yes, several times, with lots of different subs. you need to get new subs, or determine the source of your mechanical noise. the only sound coming from a sub should be the music.
or maybe you are cranking your subs up too far and clipping your signal. the point of the story is there should be no noise
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Precisely.
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awh so much different answers! lol people are saying that downfiring would give it enought air, but isnt it about the air space in the box? i understand that its gotta have room outside. but it looks as if down firing theres like 1.25" of clearance on the floor and up firing it seems there wouldnt be much more than that cuz of the height of the seat??? am i all wet? lol
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Just be sure you have enough room for speaker excursion (cone travel) so you don't bottom out on anything.
You don't want the speaker hitting the floor, bottom of the seat, back wall of the truck, etc. (depending which way you face the speaker).
There should not be a problem if the speaker has proper clearances.
I can tell you from experience that a down-fire enclosure gets the job done very very well under the back seat in my crewcab.
In case you haven't seen my enclosure before, pictures below, write up in my sig.
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You don't want the speaker hitting the floor, bottom of the seat, back wall of the truck, etc. (depending which way you face the speaker).
There should not be a problem if the speaker has proper clearances.
I can tell you from experience that a down-fire enclosure gets the job done very very well under the back seat in my crewcab.
In case you haven't seen my enclosure before, pictures below, write up in my sig.
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downfiring is an acceptable way to put a box under your seat. just make sure the sub isnt going to hit anything during excursion, and that it has some room to breathe. you dont want it closed off which would turn it into some sort of bandpass box.
Follow Todds build, he has built himself a very nice box and kept it simple.
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I agree, there *should* be no noise. My current subs don't clip, but i definitely push them to their limits. I usually overpower my subs anyways, and I like pushing the volume until they garble the sound
I've thrown 1500w+ at my type X and watched it get really sloppy sounding.
My ideas were put in layman's terms. I've had several cheapo, lower power subs start to make annoying flapping/buzzing/distorting noises when they are pushed too hard (i've tried out quite a few). I meet people all the time who blast their distorting systems all day long thinking that's what it's supposed to sound like. Loud, but very muddy sound. I know you would understand where i'm coming from because you own some nice equipment and probably have things tuned well. I completely understand what you're saying, but probably 2/3 of the people on this board run generic base-model circuit city/best buy subwoofers that are incorrectly powered with random amplifiers that were suggested by salesmen.
I apologize for getting off-topic. I'm not trying to derail this thread. Just sharing my experiences with my several different set-ups.
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Well I'm not going to say down fire is 100% better than up but I will say that I absolutely hate the sub facing up in my CrewCab :laugh: Went to my stereo shop and said hey I've been coming here for years, since the day he opened to be exact, I trust you to put a sub in here. Well he always takes care of me and built a box for a shallow P3 and I absolutely hate it!!! The bass is low and clean but when cranked up you can hear the sub when it hits and I personally dont like that. I dont like to hear it hit I prefer to feel the bass more than hear the speaker. After tuning the amp over, and over, and over, and over I went back said take this S&%* back and build me something that fires down. So after tomorrow I'll tell you which sounded better. :fantastic: Oh and a side note, you dont always have to go for high power, try a little Dynamat or any other sound deadener. I got 200 sq. ft. off ebay for $100!! Dont know how much it is now but the stuff is called Fatmat. Works just as good as Dynamat at less than half the price. Sound deadener will also give you a better sounding bass that you may be looking for.
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Downfiring is a lot like corner loading a sub in a house. To avoid a long technical post about the characteristics about acoustic waveforms, just do this: Picture if a speaker is on a flat baffle with no surfaces directly near it (say just a huge wall for visual purposes). that's a 180 degree radiating surface. We'll eliminate the back wave and act like this was your typical sealed box where the back wave is simply used for acoustic suspension. Now, put a wall up against one side of the speaker: now it's radiating sound in a more directional pattern, roughly 90 degrees. now let's say we put a ceiling above that, now the sound is VERY directional, but there's more sound output in that directional location because the output has been isolated to a very specific area. This is the principle of corner loading in a house (or downfiring in a vehicle), or horn loading tweeters in the case of pro audio in concerts or some home systems for that matter.
Now does it help our trucks? Not as much. Not because of principle, but because our trucks aren't particularly enormous, meaning the sub is already firing into a pretty compressed environment that's much smaller than the waveforms being produced within it (in the case of a subwoofer). This is just how vehicles are (most vehicles anyway). So downfiring, while it can help some, isn't necessarily required for high output levels in trucks like ours because you've already got a lot of reflective surfaces working in your favor that are doing what corner loading/downfiring would have done otherwise. Now when you've got a vehicle like an Escalade or an Excursion, it makes a big time difference because of the area of the vehicle itself. That's the reason that cars like Honda CRX's get so loud with hardly any effort or expense put into a lot of subwoofers and amplification. There's so much transfer function because the cabin is so small that there's no need for extreme measures.
In summary, do what you want and what you think fits best hope this helps
Now does it help our trucks? Not as much. Not because of principle, but because our trucks aren't particularly enormous, meaning the sub is already firing into a pretty compressed environment that's much smaller than the waveforms being produced within it (in the case of a subwoofer). This is just how vehicles are (most vehicles anyway). So downfiring, while it can help some, isn't necessarily required for high output levels in trucks like ours because you've already got a lot of reflective surfaces working in your favor that are doing what corner loading/downfiring would have done otherwise. Now when you've got a vehicle like an Escalade or an Excursion, it makes a big time difference because of the area of the vehicle itself. That's the reason that cars like Honda CRX's get so loud with hardly any effort or expense put into a lot of subwoofers and amplification. There's so much transfer function because the cabin is so small that there's no need for extreme measures.
In summary, do what you want and what you think fits best
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