[PutMeInTheSky]

While browsing through the 4x4parts.com website, I was dreaming about some day putting performance cams in my truck.

I noticed that there are three sets available there.

I don't know enough to understand what the differences are.

One set says euro cams. Supposedly give a 5% power increase.
(here's what I don't understand) .392"/264* lift and duration.

The next set says S1 (so, stage one?, and what exactly does stage one mean?)
This one says it gives 12-15 hp gains. Numbers say .440"/260 degrees. Whatever that means.

And finally, one says S2 (again, guessing this means stage 2)
This one says it gives 15-17 hp gains. Numbers say .473"/266 degrees.

The "euro cams" are WAY cheaper, but also seem to give less of a power increase. So, I've pretty much ruled those out.

The other two cam sets, however, are the same price. $550.00. Why would they be the same price? Why would anyone want to buy a set of ANYTHING that does less than something of the same price? Am I missing something here?

https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/performance-cams-c-367_130.html

Also, is this something I want to do, or does it sound better than it is? Would this end up destroying my motor?

 

[jhughes3281]

It could be the difference between S1 and S2 has to do with other valve train components. For instance, when I used to race Honda's, you could add a set of small lift cams that would not require a change of springs, retainers, rockers, etc. Or you could add some huge lobe cams that would need new titanium components.

The lift has to do with the how high the valve will go. If you go too high, you can float the valve and it will unseat. The duration is how long, in degrees, that the valve stay open when the cam is turning. The longer the opening, the longer the air goes in and subsequently the burn. The problem with too much duration is overlap. That is where the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time, and if it's too long of an overlap, that is where you get the really rough idle.

My feeling on cams is that, unless you are racing more than not, do not do it for a daily driver. I found out with my experience that I was always making sure that the timing was correct, and making sure that the idle did not throw some code or other problem. Again, all my experience with cams was either on a strip racing Honda or my dune buggy. I am not sure how the Fornty's ECU would like the additional lumpiness. I know the ECU "relearns", but at what costs?

 

[MESOGLEA]

If you go for the "super double throw down eliminator" cams, you may end up shifting the power band to an area of the rev range you don't usually drive in.
Find your OEM cam specs and compare the lift and duration differences. The mild cams should have only a little more lift.

 

[PutMeInTheSky]

So, forget about it. Unless I'm building a race truck.

Which, I'd love to do. I'm not quite there yet... Unfortunately.

 

[MESOGLEA]

New cams will provide more power.
I feel people tend to think of mods like an intake, carb, headers and cam for a muscle car V8 that literally uncorks the engine will provide the same for a late model electronically controlled system.
Just not the same as a $100 cam for your old V8.

 

[dubie2003]

Cams are not just for race vehicles. As stated above, if you keep them mild enough, you will have okay street manners and will have more power when you want it. Now if you overlap and extend the duration too much, you will have to raise the idle too much to keep it streetable.

The one thing to think about is the install. The price of a cam swap on a newer motor is a lot more expensive then on an old school v8. You basically have to tear down the motor to get the cams out since they are linked to the timing belt/chain. This pushes up the labor cost quite a bit and then on top of that, you don't just have 1 cam but 2 (and 4 for 2nd gens). This adds up on the upfront cost of material.

 

[jhughes3281]

The one thing to think about is the install. The price of a cam swap on a newer motor is a lot more expensive then on an old school v8. You basically have to tear down the motor to get the cams out since they are linked to the timing belt/chain. This pushes up the labor cost quite a bit and then on top of that, you don't just have 1 cam but 2 (and 4 for 2nd gens). This adds up on the upfront cost of material.

I did not even think of that, but it is quite the truth. Older cars are easier because you can slip the belt on/off without much trouble. In addition to what Dubie said, older cars also have replacement/upgrade parts readily available at the local part store.

Personally I do not think cams by themselves are hard to install. You basically remove the valve cover and rockers, replace, reset timing and you are good to go (for the most part as I know there is more to it). I think the hardest part is making sure everything is lined up properly, since the cams are connected to the rest of the motor through the timing belt/chain.

 

[Coldfire1990]

4x4parts.com isnt the only place that sells cams

cams for the vg30 SOHC motors will fit. take a look at schnieder the will regrind VG cams altough there are mixed reviews on them. most major cam companies are setup to regrind just about anything so call around and ask them (crower, comp, crane, isky).

also take a look at Jim Wolf Technologies they do alot of nissan motor work

search project pathfinder in google and read those articles they used a set of nissan motorsports (nismo) off road cams, stage two i believe and are making really good power and getting i want to say around 20mpg on the highway in a late model pathfinder...

 

[dubie2003]

Just putting this out there: Project Pathfinder Part 8, Cams ECU Headers

 

[PutMeInTheSky]

4x4parts.com isnt the only place that sells cams

cams for the vg30 SOHC motors will fit. take a look at schnieder the will regrind VG cams altough there are mixed reviews on them. most major cam companies are setup to regrind just about anything so call around and ask them (crower, comp, crane, isky).

also take a look at Jim Wolf Technologies they do alot of nissan motor work

search project pathfinder in google and read those articles they used a set of nissan motorsports (nismo) off road cams, stage two i believe and are making really good power and getting i want to say around 20mpg on the highway in a late model pathfinder...

Thanks for the input.

If I'm already getting between 20 & 21 mpg, does this mean I'll get BETTER than that?!? AND more power???!!!!! That would be great!!

 

[Coldfire1990]

most likely

the late model pathfinders definitely have some wieght on a first gen frontier
but something else with project pathfinder is they were building it to be a decicated tow vehicle so if you arent worried about towing you might be able to get a slightly larger grind and sacrifice some low end for more topend horses. the best thing for you to do is call one of the companies i mentioned or nissan motorsports or schnieder and talk to someone that lives eats breathes and sh!ts camshaft dynamics. Tell them exactly what you want and they should be able to recomend a lobe profile that will give you what you want

 

[rdrfronty]

Well, I can only speak from a Vq40 point-of-view, vs your 3.3L. First comment is cams on Vq40's are a pain in the butt to put in. You could do a complete engine rebuild on an old school chevy 350 easier than and involving less parts than doing a 4 cam swap on a DOHC V6. That said, I'm sure the 3.3L is a fair bit easier to install. As for idle quality and dependability--as long as do don't go over a stage 2 cam, I think you will be OK. I did have slight stall issues at first, but was easily corrected with mostly A/F ratio adjustments down low and a slight 50 rpm idle bump. I idle at about 680 rpms now and have never stalled since the retune. As for SES codes--you will get some, mainly engine misfire codes. These again can be easily tuned out. As for dependability, I would have no qualms walking out right now and driving my truck from texas to alaska for fear of breaking down. Its a non issue. As for performance gains, I think the 3.3 or 4.0L engines should expect peak gains 5-10whp for stage 1 cams and maybe 10-15whp for stage 2 cams. Stage 3 cams 20+whp gains if support mods allow it. Of course other accompanying mods greatly effect those peak numbers. Also I would suggest stage 3 cams only very serious racers, more serious than me for sure. Not a daily driver cam for most people. As for gas mileage, I never took a hit on mpg. Still get my usual 18-19mpg combo driving. To me the two side benefits of my cam install besides power gains were--1) cool lumpy idle, not bad enough to worry about stalling, but enough you can easily hear when sitting beside me at a light. 2) engine exhaust/intake sound improvements. My truck sounds way cool now!
Anyway to sum it up. Cams on our nissans are usually pretty expensive, difficult to install, offer only moderate gains. If you can do the swap yourself and you dont have to run up c.cards or take a loan out to buy them, I say do the swap. If the mechanical ability and finances are lacking for you, your better off waiting on the cams, or buying a nice exhaust or tune for much less.

 

[PutMeInTheSky]

Money's not the problem (though I don't want to break my bank), but the mechanical ability certainly is. If I had a full-on shop/garage and another vehicle right now, I'd probably get one of my mechanic friends to help me over a couple of weekends with some 12-packs. Till then though...

This is more information gathering for the future anyways. I know that I won't be doing the cams any time in the immediate future. Maybe within the next couple of years though.

Coldfire, thanks for the info! Invaluable! I may end up calling a couple of those companies at some point!

 

[Coldfire1990]

no problem

when are you due for a timing belt change? if you take it to the dealer to have it done i bet you could convince them to change the cams while they have the motor torn down to do the belt

 

[dubie2003]

no problem

when are you due for a timing belt change? if you take it to the dealer to have it done i bet you could convince them to change the cams while they have the motor torn down to do the belt

I was thinking the same thing. I just don't think the dealer would do it but an independent shop should. Plus, the extra cost at that point will be minimal compared to a complete tear down for each job.

 

[PutMeInTheSky]

It's really funny you guys should bring this up.

I was kind thinking the exact same thing on my way home from work tonight. (Right after I just said I wouldn't be doing this anytime soon. I guess plans can change!)

I'm at 106k right now. So, I'll be getting the timing belt done real soon.

I'm leaving for work for 3 weeks tomorrow. Should I call one of those shops (or more) while I'm gone and see what they can do for me? When I come home, I'll only be here for a few days, then I'll be gone for another couple of weeks. Seems like this might just be an opportune time to get all of this sorted. That way, when I get back from Cali, I'll have a more bada$$ truck to drive!

This sounds better and better the more I think about it. I really comes down to $$$ though....

The question now becomes which cams are a safe bet for me? Or, how long till I can get some custom ones machined for me? (cost on that?) Should I do it at all?

I'm mostly a daily driver with my truck right now. I'm slowly turning it into a trail rig of sorts, with some speed capabilities as well. Sorta like a pre-runner, but not in the desert, if that makes any sense at all.

When I get another car (probably next year some time), I'll be more serious about the trail eating aspects of my truck. However, I'd still like for it to remain mostly street legal throughout it's time with me. At least for a number of years.

Does it still make sense to do this if I haven't added an exhaust yet? How soon after should I consider doing that (if not immediate)? Could the extra power (pressure?) screw anything up if it doesn't have the right exhaust? I'd love to go to the DT headers at some point, dual exhaust, everything... at some point.

After thinking about how far the motor has to be torn down to do the belt (as you both have also thought about)... if it's not going to have any adverse effects on my motor, it really seems like I might as well. (bank account willing, of course)

 

[slothrs]

I don't know if you read through the project pathfinder link or not but it's worth reading. It clearly states that the cams are the best thing you can do for a vg33 or vg30, adding almost 25hp to a 33 and lots of low end torque. If I had kept my 97 Pathfinder, I was going to go this route.

You ought to read through the comments carefully too, as there is a wealth of info in those. Try looking for the original project pathfinder that was in nissan performance magazine.

 

[dubie2003]

If you are going to use the truck for more offroading and not high speed dunes, then I would go for something that is more TQ oriented if possible (I am not even sure if this is possible).

I would also stick with a stage 1 or 2 cam. The more extreme you go, the more tuning you will need to keep it happy.

This now brings up another question. Did project pathy have to do any custom tuning to get the cams to work? If so, you may have to follow in suit to make your cam install work. I would figure a stage 1 is a no tune required, stage 2 may require a idle bump and possible a timing change. Stage 3 probably requires a tune.

You mentioned the exhaust. I am going to say that you won't see the full benefits of the cams until you do the exhaust but there probably won't be any negative affects due to the stock exhaust.

I suggest that if the price is right, have it all done at once. If you don't and end up doing cams in the next year, you are going to kick yourself for the extra labor costs.

 

[Grendel]

Please be careful changing cams. Camshafts are part of a complete package of modifications and should have profiles that support your entire engine build, power goals, desired RPM, etc. Simply dropping in a set of cams hoping for power gains without any trade-offs is foolish and will result in disappointment.

Cams profiles are designed to work with specific intake and exhaust manifold designs, and within a set RPM range.

This from guy that has tested dozens of cam types in both NA and Boosted applications. A good website to read about cams is Endyne's at Energy Dynamics. That man knows more about cam design than anyone Ive ever met.

 

[rdrfronty]

Please be careful changing cams. Camshafts are part of a complete package of modifications and should have profiles that support your entire engine build, power goals, desired RPM, etc. Simply dropping in a set of cams hoping for power gains without any trade-offs is foolish and will result in disappointment.

Cams profiles are designed to work with specific intake and exhaust manifold designs, and within a set RPM range.

This from guy that has tested dozens of cam types in both NA and Boosted applications. A good website to read about cams is Endyne's at Energy Dynamics. That man knows more about cam design than anyone Ive ever met.

This is very true. I have gained Hp & TQ from 3K and up, but below that I did have a little loss from my cams. On my stick it's not very noticeable, but on auto transmissions it often requires a stall converter to get past this power loss down low quicker to have a gain over all.