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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Were you watching Mad Matt?

It's an interesting design. I don't have any experience, but progressive rate springs are not new. Usually they are made by changing the coil spacing.

What drove you to look for new springs? Personally I had some bad sag with my stock ones. I bought the 2607 Old Man Emu springs. The only difference between the 2607 and 2608 is the free length. Spring rate is the same. I run them with a front plate bumper and a winch with a spacer lift and Bilstein 5100's (lowest setting) plus an aftermarket upper control arm. I cut a slight bit off the tangential end of the spring, 5/8" off the driver side and 7/8" off the passenger side. Truck sits nice and level front to back (with lift shackles) and side to side and I like the spring rate. I removed the anti-roll bar and body roll is tolerable. I measure 38" from the ground to the bottom of the wheel arch with 285/70R16 tires. The only thing I would change is the Bilsteins. They do not have enough damping, but it's not the spring's fault. The truck was too bouncy even before I changed the springs. I also added a 0.75" piece of Delrin bar below the front bump stops. The stock stop height assumes the truck doesn't have a spacer lift. Add a spacer lift and you need to raise the bump stops to prevent bottoming the shocks.

The right way to do it is with coilovers. That way you have full control over the spring rate and the preload, but I wasn't looking to spend that much and can understand why others wouldn't want to as well.
 

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No direct experience (first I've heard of them), but I have used progressive springs on coilover shocks, on road racing cars, motorcycles, and heck, even on R/C cars.

Personally, I'd rather have a well-tuned linear (constant-rate) spring setup than a progressive rate. It's hard to tune shocks for progressive rate unless you have at least triple-bypass shocks to compliment coilovers.
 

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2015 Nissan Frontier SV Crew Cab LWB 4x4
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Main reasons, I just added a bunch of weight to the front end with a custom 2" front receiver that's made from 5x3x1/4" angle iron and 2x2x1/4" square tube, and a 115lb winch/receiver-mount, plus the 1/0 gauge cable and anderson connectors for power. The winch/mount will come off when I don't have a reason to carry it but the front receiver will be a permanent addition.

The truck is also a crew cab longbed, the 139.9" wheelbase. I need all the help I can get with the added weight and breakover angle.

Lastly I may end up adding even more weight in the future, rock sliders.

The removal of the winch gives me interest in the progressive springs, since that 115lb difference at the very front of the truck is noticeable.
 

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I think the springs are progressively wound and the wire is not tappered.
It is to soften the intial low impact hit ,stiffen as they get harder hits.
Dodge aftermarket has done it for years.
Also, most all high end systems use dual springs.
When the softer spring coil binds .the heavier set take over.
No room for the Frontier without going to hoops and they still is a not enough space,
 

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I think the springs are progressively wound and the wire is not tappered.
It is to soften the intial low impact hit ,stiffen as they get harder hits.
Dodge aftermarket has done it for years.
Also, most all high end systems use dual springs.
When the softer spring coil binds .the heavier set take over.
No room for the Frontier without going to hoops and they still is a not enough space,
The video that Mad Matt did about them discusses them specifically being tapered because the kind of machine they use to size the steel allows them to taper just as easily as if they merely "skin" the wire to remove foundry/shipping blems.


This is a picture from their website. No idea if this actually the TTCS-2403T or merely is representative of their progressive springs, but there's a pretty clear taper top to bottom:

323479


What I don't get is why they install them narrower-end down. Wouldn't it make more sense to put the thicker end at the top, to reduce the amount of unsprung weight presuming the stiffer part doesn't move as much?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Call or email Terrain Tamer and get the spring rate info. The rate for the 2607 and 2608 is 480 lbs/in. They have the same number of wraps and the same wire diameter, only the free length is different - 370 mm for 2607 and 380 mm for 2608. When I measured the 2607 they were indeed 370. The stock springs are 450 lbs/in according to Old Man Emu catalog, but I don't think mine were 450 any more. The stock spring free length was about 340-345 mm when I removed them. The 2607s I put on were noticeably stiffer than the stock springs. I could really tell because I have the anti-roll bar off. Roll resistance was considerably higher with the OME springs.

The main reason I went with the 2607 springs is because I could see they had a higher rate.


I know you asked about the Terrain Tamer spring, but I am including the OME spring info for reference.

I think the bottom end is tangential and the top end is square. They probably can't put the smaller diameter wire on the bottom tangential end and need to put the stronger full diameter wire down there. The square end if going to make contact with the spring perch all the way around so that end is more suited to the narrow wire.

It will be interesting to know the Terrain Tamer spring rate range. On the website they say "reduced body roll". I am guessing the rate at the upper end exceeds the stock springs.
 

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I haven't ruled anyone out yet, I'm specifically interested in talking about these Terrain Tamers because I had not seen coils for these trucks using tapered steel before. The Alldogs might well be a contender but their coils look like the wire is of uniform taper.

Years and years ago when I'd been more active in the Mopar scene, people were talking about leafsprings with a monoleaf design, with the thickness of the leaf varying over the length of the spring in order to give it different characteristics based on load and force. These tapered coils seem like they'd achieve something of such characteristics potentially.
 

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One thing to be very mindful of on coil springs for 2nd gen Frontiers / Xterras is wire diameter and solid height (coil bind). The wrong material choice or process which satisfies set height and stress requirements for a coil spring in Nissan applications can result in a spring with too tall of a solid height. This reduces available travel and can lead to extreme forces being transferred to the lower coil spring seat. We've found that hot wound coils are not the best choice for Nissans as they require thicker wire diameter and more coil winds to get an ideal rate - this results in a taller set height.

@TWX the leaf spring design you're referring to is also known as a parabolic leaf spring. The new Ford Ranger comes with this style leaf spring. It's interesting in that you can have a highly linear rate, just like a coil spring. It also uses less steel and is lighter than an elliptical multi-leaf design. We'd explored the possibility of producing a parabolic leaf but there aren't a lot of facilities equipped to do them and the ones that are operate at a much larger scale than aftermarket companies like we do. They're usually supplying to OEM's.

You're correct, our wire diameter is uniform. If you reach out to Terrain Tamer to inquire on their progressive coils you may want to ask what the solid height of their coil is in order to make sure it'll play well with your shock absorber of choice.
 

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One thing to be very mindful of on coil springs for 2nd gen Frontiers / Xterras is wire diameter and solid height (coil bind). The wrong material choice or process which satisfies set height and stress requirements for a coil spring in Nissan applications can result in a spring with too tall of a solid height. This reduces available travel and can lead to extreme forces being transferred to the lower coil spring seat. We've found that hot wound coils are not the best choice for Nissans as they require thicker wire diameter and more coil winds to get an ideal rate - this results in a taller set height.

@TWX the leaf spring design you're referring to is also known as a parabolic leaf spring. The new Ford Ranger comes with this style leaf spring. It's interesting in that you can have a highly linear rate, just like a coil spring. It also uses less steel and is lighter than an elliptical multi-leaf design. We'd explored the possibility of producing a parabolic leaf but there aren't a lot of facilities equipped to do them and the ones that are operate at a much larger scale than aftermarket companies like we do. They're usually supplying to OEM's.

You're correct, our wire diameter is uniform. If you reach out to Terrain Tamer to inquire on their progressive coils you may want to ask what the solid height of their coil is in order to make sure it'll play well with your shock absorber of choice.
Thank you for your insights.

I'd been initially thinking about the OE V8 Pathfinder springs because they're rated for more weight, but I think they achieve it exactly as you caution, the linear distance of pre-coiled wire is longer, making the spring have a partial extra turn to thus be longer, meaning that the fully compressed spring at coil-bind is also taller.

My main interest in looking at this Terrain Tamer design is that new developments in very ancient technologies like springs don't happen too often, so when something new comes along it's interesting to see what the pros and cons of it are. It could be nothing, or it could be the next big thing, first hitting OE applications as you state, and eventually working its way to aftermarket.
 

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Parabolic, that's what they are called. I read this at lunch and was trying to think of where I had read about this before. Parabolic was the term
 
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[IMG alt="TWX"]https://www.clubfrontier.org/d1/avatars/m/247/247146.jpg?1583075260[/IMG]
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Discussion Starter • #1 1 d ago
So through a 4x4 youtube channel I found an Australian product called Terrain Tamer Smart Coils. They sell coils for the Frontier and Navara that use tapered steel so they can get variable-rate front springs. There appears to be two products, one for more stockish weight and one for heavier weight like if a bullbar is installed.

Anyone here have any experience with this manufacturer or these springs? A search of the forum didn't reveal anything.
 

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Above post moved by a members request as it was misplaced in a different forum.

Clint
 

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Were you watching Mad Matt?

It's an interesting design. I don't have any experience, but progressive rate springs are not new. Usually they are made by changing the coil spacing.

What drove you to look for new springs? Personally I had some bad sag with my stock ones. I bought the 2607 Old Man Emu springs. The only difference between the 2607 and 2608 is the free length. Spring rate is the same. I run them with a front plate bumper and a winch with a spacer lift and Bilstein 5100's (lowest setting) plus an aftermarket upper control arm. I cut a slight bit off the tangential end of the spring, 5/8" off the driver side and 7/8" off the passenger side. Truck sits nice and level front to back (with lift shackles) and side to side and I like the spring rate. I removed the anti-roll bar and body roll is tolerable. I measure 38" from the ground to the bottom of the wheel arch with 285/70R16 tires. The only thing I would change is the Bilsteins. They do not have enough damping, but it's not the spring's fault. The truck was too bouncy even before I changed the springs. I also added a 0.75" piece of Delrin bar below the front bump stops. The stock stop height assumes the truck doesn't have a spacer lift. Add a spacer lift and you need to raise the bump stops to prevent bottoming the shocks.

The right way to do it is with coilovers. That way you have full control over the spring rate and the preload, but I wasn't looking to spend that much and can understand why others wouldn't want to as well.

I got a ? for you where did you get this information that the 2607 an 2608 are the same "Spring Rate" I also have a front plate bumper and they're wrapped around the same Bilstein's on factory arms for a few yrs now and I have no sag as the 2608's are rated 600lb springs that is a far cry from the 480lb the 2607's are that is Spring rate.
Now yes they both are supposed to give the same "lift" of up to 2" of lift but that is where their similarities end
 

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I got a ? for you where did you get this information that the 2607 an 2608 are the same "Spring Rate" I also have a front plate bumper and they're wrapped around the same Bilstein's on factory arms for a few yrs now and I have no sag as the 2608's are rated 600lb springs that is a far cry from the 480lb the 2607's are that is Spring rate.
Now yes they both are supposed to give the same "lift" of up to 2" of lift but that is where their similarities end
This information is available in the data that OME publishes describing their springs in their international catalog.

323549
 

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lol its a misprint call em
 

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lol its a misprint call em
It's not a misprint. The wire diameter and coil winds between the two coils is exactly the same and this has been verified in person. If you're concerned it's a misprint, here's the same information in their October 2020 catalog. The previous screenshot was from their March 2018 catalog.

323550
 

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The narrower end , with the lesser spring rate will collapse first which it is suppose to do.
Does not matter,if wide up or down.
Curious as how the placement of the spring changes sprung weight?
When I measure sprung rate,the coil over and shocks are removed.
 

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The narrower end , with the lesser spring rate will collapse first which it is suppose to do.
Does not matter,if wide up or down.
Curious as how the placement of the spring changes sprung weight?
When I measure sprung rate,the coil over and shocks are removed.
Well, if the narrow end compresses first, then wouldn't the thicker end only compress once coil-bind has been achieved starting from the narrow end?

I guess it depends on where the coil-bind naturally occurs when the suspension is at-rest. If the compression stops 1/3 the way up the spring at-rest and usually occurs 1/4 to 1/2 the way up the spring in street driving, then that 1/2 with the thicker wire being low would mean that 1/2 would be unsprung weight on the street. If that 1/2 is at the top though, then it's supported by the 1/2 that's undergoing regular compression and expansion that's down against the LCA.

I've e-mailed Terrain Tamer to inquire about their products, given the time difference no idea when I'll get a response. I may followup with asking about installationg with the narrow end down versus up, along with what dampeners they like with their springs. Billstein 5100 appeals due to its ability to be set for specific ride heights but if they've found it's a bad combination then that might not work so well. But also again I haven't decided exactly what springs to go with either. Travel is important, and even though I won't be Titan-swapping I'd like whatever I go with to give me as much travel as can be afforadbly achieved with bolt-on parts. That might even mean aftermarket UCAs, but again, haven't decided yet.
 
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