[nisracer]

looking at the factory intake tube, the only thing keeping us from simply putting a cone filter on the end of our intake tube is the sensor that is part of the air box. im tempted to cut the air box off where the tube starts, and put a filter on it lol. but surely within a few days the plastic would crack and filter would fall off and i would feel like a newb and have to break out shims and duct tape..... but if someone could machine an aluminium flange like the one on the box and weld it to a 3" aluminum pipe 6" long, the problem would be solved. if somebody will make this magical piece you will be the SH!Z!!

if one had a CNC and could weld aluminum, you could bang them out quick and the materials should be cheap. one could make some good side money at $20-30 a piece with little effort. then we could just pick up an intake filter from $20-60 and making a heat sheild would be cake for anyone who has half a brain, and $10 at home depot lol. it would be much better than the $200-$400 intakes we're getting bent over for now, and the stock plastic pipe should be better than a metal pipe that will heat soak.

if anyone can machine out the flange, that would be awsome, all the older nissans "cars" you could just buy an adapter flange and filter off ebay for $22 shipped, it would be this simple and cheap for us too if someone will make this

it would be:fantastic:

 

[Frijolero]

Do you use any form of CAD? I have a a first gen So I cant get any dimensions off mine but if you can draw of the part or give me detailed dimensions I'll machine one or two flanges for you when I have some free time.

 

[nisracer]

i dont have and cad type programs but the flange is very basic, it looks to be about 1"x1.5" with a rounded rectangulare whole with two holes opposite corners, so it would be super easy to draw up i would assume, i'll try to get the mesurements tomorrow. wish i had the tools lol i would do it myself. this should work for alot of vehicles and will probly piss off all the intake manufactures when china starts making them lol.

 

[Frijolero]

I'll make one for you and one for someone local for the price of materials and supplies if someone local would contribute with letting me take a caliper to their truck.

 

[dsent]

Its kinda funny you bring this up.

I have been looking to make my own in take as well.

My idea though is to keep the intake on the passenger side so that it does not cross over top the motor and collect any heat, have it insulated and run it to behind the grill somewhere for RAM AIR INDUCTION with fresh cool air and air filter somewhere in between the inlet and the motor.

Still looking at the possibilities.

I never understood why all the current supposed cold air intakes cross over the motor with out being ceramic coated so they would not absorb heat before the air got to the intake, that defeats the purpose.

I am a machinist,ME,and my business is servicing milling machines.

I have the equipment in my home shop.

 

[Jordo]

Do you use any form of CAD? I have a a first gen So I cant get any dimensions off mine but if you can draw of the part or give me detailed dimensions I'll machine one or two flanges for you when I have some free time.

I have "Pro E" which is the latest version of cad......on speed. It is CAD but lets parts move if there on a hinge for example. Plus it would show you if you made a linkage, and your sizes were off, it would show you that it would bind up. Its MORE then capable of doing what your talking about.....


But read my next responce.....

Its kinda funny you bring this up.

I have been looking to make my own in take as well.

My idea though is to keep the intake on the passenger side so that it does not cross over top the motor and collect any heat, have it insulated and run it to behind the grill somewhere for RAM AIR INDUCTION with fresh cool air and air filter somewhere in between the inlet and the motor.

Still looking at the possibilities.

I never understood why all the current supposed cold air intakes cross over the motor with out being ceramic coated so they would not absorb heat before the air got to the intake, that defeats the purpose.

I am a machinist,ME,and my business is servicing milling machines.

I have the equipment in my home shop.

Well I have been a mechanic for 12 years. (mainly motorcycles) And 5 of thoes years was at a proformance only shop. I have done 100+ hours of dyno testing alone.

Is what your missing is this. The air coming through the intake tube is travleing at 40+ MPH. (guessing, but I'm sure i'm close) There is ZERO time for that air to heat up. Plus and ''Air box" gives about 2-3% beter "snap" power then an open filter. Why? Because it has a "resivor of ..... NONE TURBULANT AIR... (<------ thats key, right there)

With a open filter the air is moving around how ever it wants to.... when its in a box, it is more "stagnet" and will enter the intake straiter. When air tumbles.... it is traveling more distance, there for..."slower" there for less power.

But I will still help with the Computer side if you want.

 

[dsent]

Jordo I am sorry to disagree with you and your theory

The RAM AIR BOX is a twin snorkel, high capacity air cleaner housing used to supply fresh air to an engine. It is based on the popular 14" open element air cleaner. The RAM AIR BOX is a one-piece, hand-laminated fiberglass unit, offered in many sizes. The benefits of cooler air, teamed with forced induction, have long been understood.

We have applied this technology and manufactured an air box to help plumb the air to the engine. The RAM AIR BOX is the key to the whole system. Let us consider the original equipment manufacturers and how they deal with fresh air systems for their vehicles. These are their priorities: low speed drivability, fuel economy, low emissions and low engine noise. Some of the new inlet systems are in fact mufflers.

Air Inlet Systems is dedicated to maximum performance, be it power or economy. When you increase efficiency, both may improve. The 60's were full of air-grabbing ideas. Everybody had something. Then the fuel crunch of the early 70's ushered in the emissions era. Only the odd insurgence had been noted until GM re-introduced the RAM AIR on the Trans-Am and Z-28 in 1996. Today, all manufacturers use some sort of fresh air inlet systems. Over the years, few choice performance-optioned vehicles have been graced with twin snorkel or high capacity air cleaner housings. Most of these are still more restrictive than our smallest models.

A typical scenario would have an individual looking to improve his engine's breathing capability by installing an open element air filter and removing his single-snorkel original equipment air filter. What he has gained in air quantity, he lost in air quality. This, in effect, may void the potential gains. With the RAM AIR BOX, he can truly decrease air restriction in the inlet track and retain the fresh air benefits. With the RAM AIR BOX, he truly feels the performance improvements due to the modification.

Although the cooler air is mandatory, there is another great benefit to be had with the RAM AIR BOX. The fact is that when we drive down the road, we are pushing air with the front of our vehicle. That is a source of high pressure air. The potential pressure head at the grill is approximately 2" of hg. This is available for the taking. With smooth ducting, most of that can be channelled into the air box. Our 1/4 mile acceleration tests have yielded .2 to .4 of a second elapsed-time improvement.

Test vehicles have reported up to 3 miles per gallons improvements, over long periods. We generally expect to see as much as a 10 % increase in power when installing an air box over an open element air filter. Gains over factory single-snorkel / non fresh systems may even be greater. How to select a RAM AIR BOX: The simplest way to determine which air box you need is by installing a 14" diameter open-element air filter onto the vehicle. Generally, by fitting the tallest air filter possible, it will tell us the maximum size RAM AIR BOX the chassis can accept. Please keep in mind that cowl induction rear open-hood scoops are not wide enough to allow the twin snorkel style RAM AIR BOX to tuck under them. If that is the case, start thinking cowl box.

 

[Jordo]

The RAM AIR BOX is a twin snorkel, high capacity air cleaner housing used to supply fresh air to an engine. It is based on the popular 14" open element air cleaner. The RAM AIR BOX is a one-piece, hand-laminated fiberglass unit, offered in many sizes. The benefits of cooler air, teamed with forced induction, have long been understood.

We have applied this technology and manufactured an air box to help plumb the air to the engine. The RAM AIR BOX is the key to the whole system. Let us consider the original equipment manufacturers and how they deal with fresh air systems for their vehicles. These are their priorities: low speed drivability, fuel economy, low emissions and low engine noise. Some of the new inlet systems are in fact mufflers.

Air Inlet Systems is dedicated to maximum performance, be it power or economy. When you increase efficiency, both may improve. The 60's were full of air-grabbing ideas. Everybody had something. Then the fuel crunch of the early 70's ushered in the emissions era. Only the odd insurgence had been noted until GM re-introduced the RAM AIR on the Trans-Am and Z-28 in 1996. Today, all manufacturers use some sort of fresh air inlet systems. Over the years, few choice performance-optioned vehicles have been graced with twin snorkel or high capacity air cleaner housings. Most of these are still more restrictive than our smallest models.

A typical scenario would have an individual looking to improve his engine's breathing capability by installing an open element air filter and removing his single-snorkel original equipment air filter. What he has gained in air quantity, he lost in air quality. This, in effect, may void the potential gains. With the RAM AIR BOX, he can truly decrease air restriction in the inlet track and retain the fresh air benefits. With the RAM AIR BOX, he truly feels the performance improvements due to the modification.

Although the cooler air is mandatory, there is another great benefit to be had with the RAM AIR BOX. The fact is that when we drive down the road, we are pushing air with the front of our vehicle. That is a source of high pressure air. The potential pressure head at the grill is approximately 2" of hg. This is available for the taking. With smooth ducting, most of that can be channelled into the air box. Our 1/4 mile acceleration tests have yielded .2 to .4 of a second elapsed-time improvement.

Test vehicles have reported up to 3 miles per gallons improvements, over long periods. We generally expect to see as much as a 10 % increase in power when installing an air box over an open element air filter. Gains over factory single-snorkel / non fresh systems may even be greater. How to select a RAM AIR BOX: The simplest way to determine which air box you need is by installing a 14" diameter open-element air filter onto the vehicle. Generally, by fitting the tallest air filter possible, it will tell us the maximum size RAM AIR BOX the chassis can accept. Please keep in mind that cowl induction rear open-hood scoops are not wide enough to allow the twin snorkel style RAM AIR BOX to tuck under them. If that is the case, start thinking cowl box.

Man, I wish I was wrong and you were right. The one thing I do agree with is the high pressure in the front of the vehical....at speed.

But, If your opening for the intake was right at the grill, you arnt pusshing air right there, so there is no high presure at that spot where the intake is. So now you dont have this high pressure THIS IS INFACT THERE. But like I said, I feel it is VERY hard to effectivly get that high pressure in the intake.

How you DO get it in there.... Go OVER 100 MPH, then that high pressure will start to over whelm the low pressure of the intake....but that takes 100MPH +.

But I am 100% cofident that the "heat" of OEM intakes is less then a 1% factor. "cold air intakes" is more of a selling point then a proformance gain.
The speed of the air....does not have time to heat up!!!

I can throw out the math equation of air's ability to heat up if you want, and that will end this part of the subject.

With 400* of ambiant under hood temp (which is very high for normal cars) at a speed of 40 MPH, (if my memorey serves me right) The air will heat up less then 5%. Which in the over all picture is less then 1%. THATS A FACT!

Your high pressure thing has more ground to stand on then the temp thing, but still I'm not convinced you will notice it in the "seat of your pants dyno".

Your thoughts?

 

[nisracer]

for the "ram air" thing, the pressure that general driving, and even going 100 mph is not create any more noticable power than simply building a more efficiant breathing setup. its not like you can build any psi off of having your filter in direct streem of moving air, the air will simply move around the filter unless the engine is sucking it in. and at that point you will be sucking in any bugs and debris that is infront of you. if people arent lying about dyno results of the air raid quick fit system then what the part i want to make will be effectivly the same thing as the air rade system and will be 15hp and 12 tq +-. im not really concerned about a ram air, or sealed box, most of my driving is on the street. and paying $60 or so and have on less hp than paying $200-$350 i say the more turbulant air of an cone filter wins over paying $300+ for a cold air, just my $0.02

 

[Jordo]

Like I said, I wish I was wrong, but would still be willing to help out if I can. I have the soft ware to do what you need.

Let me know.

 

[Frijolero]

:goodjob:
I will disregard all above comments on the ram air discussion to avoid any arguments being that my points would be all theoretical.


Jordo whenever you can draw up the part in proE and email it to me, Im pretty sure I can import proE into SW and go from there.

 

[nisracer]

Like I said, I wish I was wrong, but would still be willing to help out if I can. I have the soft ware to do what you need.

Let me know.

sweet man!

wasnt trying to get into a debate over air box vs open element, i just know open element is better flowing than our stock box, and i personally dont want to spend $200 + to get a better sounding and looking air supply lol.

 

[nisracer]

...............
Although the cooler air is mandatory, there is another great benefit to be had with the RAM AIR BOX. The fact is that when we drive down the road, we are pushing air with the front of our vehicle. That is a source of high pressure air. The potential pressure head at the grill is approximately 2" of hg. This is available for the taking. With smooth ducting, most of that can be channelled into the air box. Our 1/4 mile acceleration tests have yielded .2 to .4 of a second elapsed-time improvement.

Test vehicles have reported up to 3 miles per gallons improvements, over long periods. We generally expect to see as much as a 10 % increase in power when installing an air box over an open element air filter. Gains over factory single-snorkel / non fresh systems may even be greater. How to select a RAM AIR BOX: The simplest way to determine which air box you need is by installing a 14" diameter open-element air filter onto the vehicle. Generally, by fitting the tallest air filter possible, it will tell us the maximum size RAM AIR BOX the chassis can accept. Please keep in mind that cowl induction rear open-hood scoops are not wide enough to allow the twin snorkel style RAM AIR BOX to tuck under them. If that is the case, start thinking cowl box.

so are you saying that your airbox provides 10% more power over an open element after market intake? is that 10% of the 15 hp most of them make so yours will make 16.5 hp, or 10% on top of the factory hp, being an extra 26hp over stock? if you are getting over even 20hp out of a ram air box, please please dont be shy and tell us what company you are with because i would love to see dyno results.

you are getting your power from a more efficant intake, not air pressure from the front of the vehicle. even if you had a 5 foot funnel with a strait pipe to the trottle body you would not see any pressure that would make much more power than a well flowing filter on the factory air tube. better flowing filter and fresh air is going to be within a few hp any other intake/ram air box period. its not like we are creating boost here. and with out forced induction our engines will only suck in so much air. you can use an air copressor hose and blow it right at your face, but it wont make you take in any more air in than your lungs can take in. yeah, everyone has good points, but in my opinion it all comes down to cost vs hp. if i can spend under a hundred and be within a few hp of someone that spent over $300, im going to jimmy rig my own intake, and be happy lol.

i had a k&n drop in filter and a 50 series suv muffler on my truck "auto", and i raced a guy with a k&n intake, and stillen exhaust and he was 6spd. we were so close to even its not even funny, and my muffler "installed" and k&n filter cost me a whopping $225, and im sure that guy has spent over $600, i like fabbing up my own stuff, its much better on the wallet, and the power differences are very minimal.

 

[Jordo]

:goodjob:
I will disregard all above comments on the ram air discussion to avoid any arguments being that my points would be all theoretical.


Jordo whenever you can draw up the part in proE and email it to me, Im pretty sure I can import proE into SW and go from there.

^ we talked, and I will email him the results.

Just so we are clear, its a fitting that mounts to the stock intake tube, right wher the air box would be. It has to hold the M.A.S (mas airflow sensor) and let a cone filter clamp to it.

Is this right?

 

[dsent]

Hello Guys,

I do not work for any ram air company.

Ram air induction has been around a long time, google ram air induction.

Several production cars and motorcycles came factory with ram air induction, transam was one, there was also cowl induction threw the hood on several cars.

Ram Air Box

Banks Power | Diesel Performance and Gas Performance Products


www.tobefast.com/graves-ram-airbox-r1-02-03-c-63511-p-1-pr-10000778-f-64088.html

YouTube - Banks Ram-Air Intake System

 

[Jordo]

Hello Guys,

I do not work for any ram air company.

Ram air induction has been around a long time, google ram air induction.

Several production cars and motorcycles came factory with ram air induction, transam was one, there was also cowl induction threw the hood on several cars.

Ram Air Box

Banks Power | Diesel Performance and Gas Performance Products


Graves Motorsports Yamaha R1 Ram Air Box Kit 02-03- Tobefast

YouTube - Banks Ram-Air Intake System

Dude, Ram air totaly works...... at 100+mph. I typicly dont drive 100mph on a daily bases, so its kinda worthless, unless your race'en, which most of us dont.

 

[VoodooSaint]

Scooped intakes and open intakes pretty much do the exact same thing on the II Gen Frontiers: cut restriction and provide a more laminar (non-turbulent) airflow into the intake pipe. Ram air only provides air thats a few degrees lower, which has proven on this forum.
The whole added pressure thing is nonexistant unless you have a one-way valve providing and maintaining that pressure in a more closed system (eg a turbo or super), unless your ram air is the ONLY source of air for the intake, which will only work at speed (2 inches mercury at the grill is about 0.35 psi, the Stillen SC I believe is 4 or 5 psi of induction)

Scoop, box, or neither, your gonna get results at the high end regardless


Either way, good luck on the intake! Gonna be sweet to see a nice retrofit without using the same style of square filter I'm willing a lot of people would get it just to maintain the water and mudproof airbox

 

[nisracer]

^ we talked, and I will email him the results.

Just so we are clear, its a fitting that mounts to the stock intake tube, right wher the air box would be. It has to hold the M.A.S (mas airflow sensor) and let a cone filter clamp to it.

Is this right?

thats what the end product would be, but the only part i cant make is the flange itself. so it would only have to be the small 1.5" x 1" "estemate" plate that could be welded to a piece of 3" aluminum tubing. machining the pipe would be an expensive waist of time when it could be just welded to a piece of an old intake i have laying around.

heres what i would need, done with MS paint lol, it could easly be made with a manual mill, and really if i could find a propper chunk of aluminum i could do it with a dremel, but i dont want to go too ghetto with it lmao!

Dude, Ram air totaly works...... at 100+mph. I typicly dont drive 100mph on a daily bases, so its kinda worthless, unless your race'en, which most of us dont.

i do.... bwahahahah! j/k

 

[Jordo]

OK, looks good. I'll put it in Pro E.

 

[nisracer]

sweet my ninja, sweet! lol

if i wasn't an hour away from my calipers i would mesure it out for ya,

fail.... lol