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3rd Gen Frontier!

107K views 737 replies 116 participants last post by  TypeO 
#1 ·
Who else is pumped for the reveal today?!
 
#617 ·
I think the 7k is an overstatement and the peak torque is only 400rpm different. Some examples below of towing with 2020 and prior 20xx models, both hitting or using 4K RPM range.

Extra thoughts: I think if you want to target peak torque all the time, then you are looking to have gear choices to keep it there. That said I dont own a trailer. lol

 
#621 · (Edited)
I would like to see the graphs on it. Currently all I've seen is the peak torque is 400 rpm different but with more gears to play with.

No comparing a diesel. :)
Ford's I4 2.3 eco hits 310 lb's of torque at 3K rpm but has allot more torque coming in around 1600 rpm then Nissan's NA motor. Why? Its called induction. Also the 2.3 eco can easily be tuned to produce over 300 HP and 350 lb/torque with a flash with literally no loss in reliability. The current spec was chosen primarily to satisfy CAFE goals. And that is combined using a 10 speed. Obviously Diesels will offer great low end torque but using induction on petrol motors will also improve low end torque significantly. GM's next gen Colorado will use their 2.7 turbo that will boost torque to around 350 lb's and around 310 HP. As it is, it will propel the silverado to 60 in 7 seconds. Imagine the performance on the Colorado. Ford's 2.7 eco will be used on the next gen Ranger that can manage up to 400 lbs of torque. Already the F 150 with the 2.7 will destroy Nissan's 3.8 in power and MPG. Its not even close. MSRP on a 22 P4X frontier fully loaded is around 45K. This is now official since the embargo has been lifted. And I agree it competes decently with the current gen Tacoma and Colorado but already behind the torque curve on the current gen Ranger. Problem is, it took Nissan 15 years to release a new gen. And the rest are about to destroy it with much better offerings on their upcoming next gens. I'm a Nissan guy and owned many Nissan products. I like the new frontier but feel they came up short with the 3.8DI motor. Part of the problem is Nissan was cash starved. They literally did not have the money to in house a transmission. That's why they licensed one from Daimler benz. And they had more experience with NA motors so they went that route instead of spending big money on a I4 turbo or hybrid design like Toyota is working on with their taco. The competition will soon have superior products because they have the money to invest in better engine tech. If I buy another truck it will be my last most likely. And prices on these things are approaching insanity levels. Definitely want to get the most bang for the money and the frontier is not future proofed. They also fell short on their new pathfinder. The chose to use a very old 3.5 NA motor and to keep it FWD. The ZF 9 speed improved things a bit but performance is underwhelming. In Contrast, the reworked explorer with the primary drive back on the rear wheels with a 4WD option and the 3.5 eco obliterates the new pathfinder in performance and MPG's for around the same kind of money. Nissan's achilles heel is using decades old drive trains. About the only bright spot they have is the upcoming Z which will use their twin turbo 3.0 liter with RWD and offering a 7 speed MT.
 
#624 ·
Man, some folks are really out of touch with diesel technology if they think diesel is more expensive to operate and maintain than a gas engine.A modern 85,000lb gcvw tractor trailer rig with 14 liter motor, auto transmission will get 6-7mpg all day long pulling a 53 foot box with 40 tons in it. Try that with your average 1200 cubic inch turbo'd fronter....lol
 
#627 ·
Its expensive for consumer applications because of the strict emissions regarding NOx (nitrogen oxide). On a mid size truck your adding 5K to the MSRP. The urea exhaust system with all its sensors is a nightmare. Its costly and you better hope it does not fail out of warranty. On the larger commercial applications and 3/4 1 ton truck applications it makes sense because of the increased capabilities. Ford just announced they are nixing their v6 power-stroke on the F150 since the ecoboost puts out more power. I know overseas the NOx is less strict on the smaller trucks. I believe they also have clean diesels as well but allot of countries don't require urea treatment. My 2014 Ranger with 3.2 diesel didn't have it. But dealing with the FEDs regarding consumer diesels is not fun in the US. I do tip my hat to GM for doing the work to import the Asian made 2.8 durmax on the Colorado. And strong rumors are hinting that too will be dropped. Once they drop their 2.7 turbo the 2.8 will be gone. You better believe it.
 
#626 ·
Still no Canadian pricing from Nissan Canada days after the USA pricing announced.
 
#629 ·
I'm having a hard time confirming US prices for the P4X with luxury package. Seems the base P4X starts at over 38K USD. On one hand they say its lower then last year but the loaded P4X with lux package was about the same. On a video I saw one with the lux package and they showed the MSRP sticker at over 45K. Even though the embargo is over we are not getting a clear picture of pricing. What they are spitting out are "base pricing" on various trims. IMO, these are going to be more expensive then Nissan is letting on.
 
#632 ·
Agreed. End the speculation.

I think one of the test mules came in at 47k. The glass half full thought here is that to get those features in another model will be higher yet... but then brand x when equipped the same (to compare) might have things like a front locker or trailer brake. The configurator tools can also play games too sometimes so I hope they get it right
 
#637 ·
37,240 is very deceiving when they havent added all the blank spots on the contract yet. Try the math,,,,,Base 37,240,add 650 destination, unknown docu fee,2790 premium,1990 convienience, 3000 TTL in most states, buy the time your driving off the lot your close to 50 grand for a well equiped truck.
 
#638 ·
just don’t be a sucker when you go into the dealership. Find a dealer that will sell for invoice or don’t buy. Try Costco pricing, cars.com search, car gurus ect to find a dealer willing to play ball. If the packages aren’t in your budget don’t buy one with it. Nissan is no different than every other mass manufacturers with options. At the end of the day invoice with destination and delivery on a Pro4X without packages is going to be about 36k plus TTL. Very competitive with other brands.
 
#640 · (Edited)
The Pro4X base with destination is $38,415 not 40K. So funny how some of you want to include the discount you got on your truck against the MSRP of the 2022. MSRP on a 2021 Pro4X is 39,065. It's okay to be pissed that an updated Pro4X with the Premium package is only around $1800 more than the 2021 Pro4X. I'd rather celibrate Nissan for giving us an updated truck reasonably close to the outgoing model. It's not fair to compare buying a 2022 against a vehicle purchase prior to the chip shortage. That was a much different market than today's market. Yes you will pay more, but trades have never been higher either. It all washes out in the end. If you don't have a trade then just wait it out until Spring of 2022 and inventory numbers will be such that you can once again buy close to invoice or below if rebates pop up.

Frontier S King Cab 4x2
$27,840 USD
Frontier SV King Cab 4x2
$30,540 USD
Frontier S King Cab 4x4
$31,040 USD
Frontier SV King Cab 4x4
$33,740 USD
Destination and Handling $1,175.

Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Prices4 for the 2022 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab:

Frontier S Crew Cab 4x2
$29,340 USD
Frontier SV Crew Cab 4x2 SWB
$32,140 USD
Frontier SV Crew Cab 4x2 LWB
$34,040 USD
Frontier S Crew Cab 4x4
$32,340 USD
Frontier SV Crew Cab 4x4 SWB
$35,140 USD
Frontier SV Crew Cab 4x4 LWB
$37,040 USD
Frontier PRO-X Crew Cab 4x2
$34,240 USD
Frontier PRO-4X Crew Cab 4x4
$37,240 USD
Destination and Handling $1,175.

Three option packages are offered: Premium (SV, PRO) at $2,790, Convenience (SV, PRO) at $1,990 and Technology (S, SV, PRO) at $990.
 
#642 · (Edited)
Your not adding the packages left out. When you add the tech package, the convenience package and the lux package to the P4X the MSRP is 43K and 40K for the non luxury package. The base P4X has no bed liner, no heated mirrors , utiility track, and a ton of stuff that used to be standard. In fact you have to buy the lux pack just to get the upgraded fender audio now. The older RF was standard. Did you not read my post? My point, and I'm certain to be correct once they hit the lots, is most if not all P4X will have at the very least the tech and convenience package. And the top of the line will also have the luxury package. Now since you did not bother to view the video, and I even told you it started at the 8 min mark, I will post screen captures here to prove my point. And yes, a fully loaded P4X now costs over 43K MSRP. Literally 8K more then what I paid for my 2019. Even if I paid the 37K MSRP back in 19 we are still talking 6K more. I expected it to be higher priced but this is pretty crazy. I don't mind paying more for all the tech, but they needed allot more low end torque then this high revving motor. If I pay silly money for a mid size I'll wait for the next gen ranger with the 2.7 eco.
 

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#641 · (Edited)
In all seriousness, and after watching every review I could find, Nissan could have offered the following for a complete hit.
Not in any particular order
1. Telescopic wheel
2. 6' bed option on Pro4X or rear locker option on SV with 6' bed
3. Trailer brake included on convenience package
4. Off-road wheel package on all trim packages
5. Make technology package (at least the blind spot, auto braking, and rear cross watch), standard on all trim lines at current pricing levels. The $990 upcharge for safety that is standard on Ford is iffy.
6. Offer a heavy payload package. The 1k payload on the 4x4 Crew Pro4X and 1100lb on the SV 4x4 Crew could be beefed up with better rear suspension OEM parts.
7. Rear passenger A/C vent in center console.

What I am getting at is Nissan could have put an overlander type rig out there and secured a good portion of an emerging market place. Having a Pro4X with an overlander package ( 6' bed, dana axle, skid plates, trailer brake, and heavy payload package around 1600 lbs) would have been a true winner.
 
#649 ·
In all seriousness, and after watching every review I could find, Nissan could have offered the following for a complete hit.
Not in any particular order
1. Telescopic wheel
2. 6' bed option on Pro4X or rear locker option on SV with 6' bed
3. Trailer brake included on convenience package
4. Off-road wheel package on all trim packages
5. Make technology package (at least the blind spot, auto braking, and rear cross watch), standard on all trim lines at current pricing levels. The $990 upcharge for safety that is standard on Ford is iffy.
6. Offer a heavy payload package. The 1k payload on the 4x4 Crew Pro4X and 1100lb on the SV 4x4 Crew could be beefed up with better rear suspension OEM parts.
7. Rear passenger A/C vent in center console.

What I am getting at is Nissan could have put an overlander type rig out there and secured a good portion of an emerging market place. Having a Pro4X with an overlander package ( 6' bed, dana axle, skid plates, trailer brake, and heavy payload package around 1600 lbs) would have been a true winner.
I think I heard the premium package will be offered on the SV. If true, one should be able to order a SV 4X4 and get the leather etc.. with LWB. Kind of like the discontinued SL. But the SV does not come with a rear locker. Not sure why Nissan does not offer the LWB on the P4X. I know lots of people request it. The tacoma offroad has it. I also agree the major safety tech should be standard. I know Toyota has a ton of safety tech standard on their tacomas. And its a major selling point for toyota sales. Nissan should follow toyota's lead in that regards.
 
#643 ·
The convenience package is really a decent deal considering it has a lot of extra stuff that you couldn't even get in a 21 like wireless charging, heated wheel, etc but the fact that you have to get a prem package to get an auto dimming mirror is BS when I think even the base Rangers have auto dimming mirrors.
 
#644 ·
I really like the upgraded rockford fosgate audio on my 19. You have to get the prem pack now to get a decent stereo. And I can guarantee to get to that level you will have to get all three packages. I mean for 15 years Nissan had utility track and spray bed liner as standard on the P4X. Now they are options. Whats frustrating is this 37200 MSRP they talk about is on a truck that basically does not exist. You really think Nissan will build a P4X with a metal box (no liner). Nope.. These are going to be expensive and fully padded up. Maybe in a year you might get a deal. By then gm/Ford will unleash their 2.7 turbos on their next gens.
 
#645 ·
Just a couple months ago folks were bragging about buying new px4's OTD for 26-27K, and how they're an expert bargaining pro, now clearly from what little documentation there is a new loaded p4x will be from 43K- maybe 48K, and I see over half dozen folks saying " glad to see there's barely any price increase", seems like everyone is so widely opinionated that everyone can be right.
 
#646 ·
People say that because Nissan had that press conference on August 10th with a HUGE billboard showing pricing. And the P4X price they announced was on a truck stripped of all three upgrade packages. I mean that truck would not even have a spray bed liner or utility track.. Basically an SV interior including the regular radio. IMO, sort of a mythical product that probably won't see the light of day. But for whatever reason, Nissan wanted to paint a picture that the next generation would be priced similar if not a few hundred less. I must add that Nissan has taken something from the Ford Ranger's playbook. That is they make you buy a fully padded up truck just to get the stereo upgrade. And I'm one of those people that like good tunes. Literally hours before I bought my 2019 P4X I had looked at the Rangers which had just hit the lots at the time. I remember I wanted the B&O sound system and the only way to get to that trim level was I had to pay over 45k for a lariat. Hours later I haggled a deal on a P4X with prem pac for 35K. Literally 10K less. I still think a loaded 22 P4X will be cheaper then a loaded Ranger. But the gap is narrowing quite a bit.
 
#651 ·
Yes there are some areas where mid size does not sell well at all. That sure is not the case here in Albuquerque. My dealer pretty much sells the P4X very quickly at full MSRP when they get them. Which is not very often. I've seen plenty of used ones with around 40K miiles on them sell for around 33K. With the tacomas is pure insanity. Stuff with 60K miles on them selling for 40K. Insane.
 
#648 ·
I guess it's all relevent, as your concerned about getting a premium RF stereo for a reasonable price w/o being shafted on a package deal, while someone like the forum AV guy here pulled out his premium RF stereo and tossed it because of its poor sound quality and added all new speakers and head unit. Everyone has such different requirements I doubt we'll ever be more than modestly satisfied with any of these new trucks. Remember when a new KRACO 8 trk tape player and two Panasonic speakers screwed to your back deck made you king of your gang in high school owning such a sophisticated system. All for like 49.99
 
#650 ·
Yes I hear complaints on the RF with some. My experience is you need to use good source material to get the most out of the system. Mostly I stream Tidal HD streaming which utilizes full BT bandwidth. Either that or use a USB stick and play MP3's at 320 kbps. Now if you do that, its sounds sweet to me. The sirus sat radio is tuned horribly. Sounds like crap. The FM sounds better then the SAT but still not great. Got to remember Sat is highly compressed. When I use sirus I use the app and use BT. The app streams at 256 kbps wheras the SAT compresses it down to about 64 kbps which is pathetic. The RF system does not do well with high compression material. The hands off phone is tuned perfectly. Great mics and very clear. I've heard far worse.
 
#652 ·
You should be able to go to a dealer and just order what you want since they are made here in the states and you will know exactly what the price is for the packages, etc. Shop it around and you'll find a dealer that will work with you. Usually ordered cars have build priority, too.
 
#655 ·
From my experience Toyota and Nissan are not very open to taking custom orders. Especially Toyota. Their sales/service is the worst. They know they will sell everything that comes off the truck and don't want to help the customer doing custom builds. But with the big three are much more doable. However the way things are now with severe shortages I might have doubts how easy it would be to complete a custom build. These are not normal times. But the way Nissan is bundling the P4X you pretty much have to buy a fully loaded one to get the upgraded stereo. I think most the early builds will be padded up. More profit margin.
 
#657 ·
Something else to keep in mind as to why the price is higher. You get more! And a lot of stuff that was not available on the older models like my 2016 Prox-4X, at any price:

About 50 more HP
4 more gears in the AT
Better seats
Much larger touchscreen
Apple Carplay
Android Auto
bigger info display in dash
Intelligent around view cameras
Safety shield 360 with automatic braking, blind spot monitor, rear cross traffic alert and more
LED exterior lighting
trailer sway control
keyless entry/pushbutton start
remote start

Yeah some of these are optional but I would get them all if I was buying. They are great features.
 
#658 · (Edited)
Whats the same as outgoing:

Cabin size, wheelbase, box length
acceleration 0-60
About the same MPG's
same weight (little more)
same bed capacity
Same 4WD system same rear locker, same hillside descend, traction control same bilstein offroad shocks
Same towing specs
same torque (but hits max at 4400 rpm instead of 4K (IMO torque is more important then HP on Truck applications)
Nissan did not improve torque, especially low end torque which the rest of the competition will drastically increase on their upcoming next gens

What's worse:
spray bed liner now optional on P4X
upgraded audio system with sub woofer now optional P4X
Roof rack now optional accessory (not available on 3 trim package's)

Having said that I'll need to sit in the 22 to see if the seats are better. The leather ones in my 19 are pretty comfy and are powered with lumbar support. Seat dimensions will be the same however. So what one is buying here is no more capability. It's not anymore capable. One report I have read is the MPG's are worse when towing. I expect this being part of the VQ design revving higher. Higher rpms means less MPG's. So what does 6000 dollars get you? Mostly saftey tech, an upgraded center stack with android auto and new gauge cluster. Possibly better seats. The new drive train on the retro truck is a mixed bag. Some of the owners on this forum aren't too crazy about it. Others say there is some improvement. But as a truck, it literally has the same specs as the outgoing as far as capability.

My thoughts on android auto. Not always as great as one might think. Its heavily software driven and can be prone to crashing and buggy features. Updates don't always improve things. Basically, when you receive the truck new, it will probably work fine. But over time, with newer phones and newer versions of android and android auto things might not work. Its not a given. One can appreciate the older RF unit being its solid state. The only protocol your phone has to manage with the head unit is bluetooth. And bluetooth by design is backward compatible. One has to ask, how much better will the fender auto sound? About the only thing that I would probably appreciate with the newer system is better cameras, higher resolution and hopefully noticeably better sounding audio. For me, on paper at least, I can't see 6K worth of upgrades here. Especially since Nissan did nothing to address the need for more low end torque. They really needed a smaller 4 cylinder using induction IMO. In the end, I wonder why Nissan went through all this trouble building a new motor from the ground up, and licensing daimler Benz's 9 speed when in the end, the performance is about the same and more importantly, they don't seem to be hitting their MPG targets. Makes we wonder if they would have had better results bolting up the VQ 40 instead? We know it will be reliable with the port injection. With still don't know if this new DI motor will have carbon build up in the intakes. The whole idea of DI is to get more performance MPG's but it seems that is not such the case here.
 
#660 ·
Bingo... the old styling for some is just that. Old. I'm hoping for low price for ME but as a business or service you should set the perceived value by price. They are trying to take some of Tacoma market share and super low pricing doesn't really help.

As for torque, do we have a full set of data yet? I suspect the difference in towing experience is not that drastic to need a turbo 4. Good option? Yes.
 
#662 · (Edited)
More importantly, a turbo will bring in allot more torque at much lower rpms. I'm talking like 1600 rpm you will feel allot of the torque coming on. This is a big deal for truck applications and considering this truck is even heavier then before would help allot. Its why almost all trucks overseas have diesels. Its also why the Ranger has a ton more power off the line. One recent reviewer was at elevation in Utah testing the performance and acceleration on the 22 P4X. To be honest, its was pretty slow. The normally aspirated motor was gasping for air and the motor seem to want to really rev allot higher then the VQ 40 and it indeed red lines much higher. The reviewer mentioned the need for a turbo as well. I'm a mile high here in Albuquerque and don't notice the 4.0 liter struggling like that. Even up in Santa Fe which is pushing 6500 feet it does ok. But with induction, that problem pretty much goes away.

Ford understands this. Its why the only normally aspirated motor they offer is the v8 5.0. At that level of displacement you still have plenty of torque. But the 2.3, 2.7, and 3.5 all have turbos. Everything they make has plenty of low end torque. Chevys next Colorado will use their 2.7 turbo which has v8 like power. Its pulls nicely in the Silverado can you imagine it in the Colorado? Same for the next Ranger with the 2.7. Knowing this, its a hard sell for me to buy a 22 frontier when I know its going to be dead last in the segment in a few short years. Nissan knows how to make good turbo motors. Just seems a waist they spent developing yet another normally aspirated VQ motor that seems more suited to a 370Z. Hopefully that spy shot of the nismo Frontier might have something more under the hood.

As for torque numbers on the 22 its the same as VQ 40 at 281 lbs. However the engine has to rev to 4400 rpm to achieve that. It was 4000 on the VQ 40. So no better really. The extra gears will help. The extra HP comes in more later rather then off the line. For cruising at high speeds this truck is really fast. I mean some guy had his up to 118 mph. And he mentioned it felt floaty. Yeah, I'd probably would never do that.
 
#664 · (Edited)
Yeah the new DI motor also gives me some pause. Allot of the old school trucks used to go 300K without allot of fuss. Before AFM and the active learning transmissions GM used to make bullet proof stuff. The older Fords the same. That said there are a shrinking number of old school options still out there. But probably not for very much longer. On the full size the Toyota Tundra still has a regular non DI MPI V8 and bullet proof 6 speed auto. Actually the Tundra is considered the most reliable on the road outside the pricey Land cruiser that is literally built to last 50 years. About the only con for the Tundra is fuel economy and it pretty horrible. The Japanese made 4-runner is another dinosaur. Again, using a very old 4.0 liter using MPI (multi port injection) and 5 speed. In the case of the Tundra not a huge seller but still way better then the Titan. The 4-runner still sells at extreme high numbers. And they cost plenty. TRD examples can command 10K over MSRP in my area. People just don't want any problems and its the last real body on frame mid size SUV in NA. i'll leave the tacoma out of this. After they went to that wacky 6 speed and akison cycle 3.5 V6 their reliability took a pretty big hit. Of course the older Frontier still using the VQ 40 with sequential port injection and 5 speed is right up there with the 4-runner for reliability. And IMO, they should have considered using that motor with the DB 9 speed.
 
#666 ·
Praying the new tech nannies (lane departure/etc) can be turned off? I love to drive and be engaged to the experience. Am absolutely not wanting any nanny assistance.
 
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