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I notice a lot of people who wheel don't use BLs, why?

5K views 32 replies 16 participants last post by  Zedbra 
#1 ·
I have read countless threads on BLs, but I've only come across a few that actually utilize a BL (along with their SL) who wheel. I understand that a BL offers no advantages other than being able to stuff a larger tire underneath, which in turn adds to ground clearance. However a lot of the build threads that I've been through where people actually wheel their trucks hard have not done BLs.

I am wondering why? Are there serious disadvantages to wheeling with a BL (on top of a good SL)?
 
#3 ·
It's a little more complicated than looking funny. It's a geometry problem. I used to run a BL on my 89' Pathfinder and had no problem. But... My Pathy was a unibody, and therefore would flex with the frame (a little bit). On our trucks, we have two different parts to our body; the bed and the cab. When our frames flex (which they are designed to do, don't worry) it can cause the bed to come in contact with the cab and dent the body of one or the other. Adding a BL can exasperate this by the change in geometry, and cause contact with much less flex.

The other issue is one of stabilty and safety. Right now your body parts are bolted directly to the frame. A BL places a block of aluminum or plastic between the two, and secures it with a longer bolt. Longer bolt means more force against the bolt as the body rolls, and can result in said bolt shearing off. Now, I've never actually seen that happen, but that's one of the concerns people have. Lots of people also complain about squeaky parts because you're doubling the number of contact points between your body and the frame (one on each side of the block).
 
#12 ·
It's a little more complicated than looking funny. It's a geometry problem. I used to run a BL on my 89' Pathfinder and had no problem. But... My Pathy was a unibody, and therefore would flex with the frame (a little bit). On our trucks, we have two different parts to our body; the bed and the cab. When our frames flex (which they are designed to do, don't worry) it can cause the bed to come in contact with the cab and dent the body of one or the other. Adding a BL can exasperate this by the change in geometry, and cause contact with much less flex.
^ This is the biggest reason not to put a BL on a truck that sees heavy wheeling action. Just too much additional flex.
 
#4 ·
I stick to the suspension lift too, I don't care so much as to how it looks but I want decent tires under the thing. Anymore than th 285/75 16 as the other guys mentioned, and it should have a gear reduction. Any more than about a 2" sus lift and you should change out the UCA's too. I must admit that there has been a couple times that I wish I had gone to the 5" lift instead of the 2" but not real often.
 
#6 ·
Body lifts stretch steering linkages, cables, wiring, etc. They put more leverage on body and bed mounting bolts. They raise center of gravity worse than a suspension lift alone would. There are lots of "real" reasons why I'll never have one again.

The main reason though...is just because they look like crap.
 
#7 ·
I looked into a body lift a while back and it's not just lifting and throwing in blocks. You have brake line extensions, steering shaft corrections, all the lines that are attached to your frame and body all have to be considered in the lift. I didn't know about the frame flexing which is another biggie. That and along with all the things included by everyone else, for me at least, it's just not worth it.
 
#8 ·
Somehow I managed to overlook one of the biggies for a lot of people.

2.5"/1.5" leveling lift kit = $150.00 + 2 hours in your driveway.

BL = $400.00 + 1-2 full days in a shop with a proper lift.
 
#9 ·
Yeah, no. 2" BL if you DIY = $100 and 1 maybe 2 hours. Buy the 2" BL and it's $225

First time DIY'er doing the leveling kit with spacers and shackles in two hours? No way. I have had my front coils out MANY times and therefore nothing is seized and it takes me 20-30 minutes just to get them out.
 
#14 · (Edited)
There are a lot of comments in this thread that simply aren't true. My body lift was $225, I did it BY MY SELF, in my driveway in a bout 2 hours. There really isn't much you have to disconnect when doing a 2"BL. You get up to 3" and that's a different story. Yes, I did add a steering extension, but it was incredibly easy, and there have been plenty members who didn't want to add the extension. I had a plastic one piece bumper, so when i lifted mine the front bumper went up too, which gave be better approach angles. My bolts have a-ok since day one, and I have had zero issues as a result of having done the BL. I also wheel my truck pretty hard, the underside of it is proof. I have yet to this point ever had the body flex enough to where the bed has come in contact with the body, and I have been in some sever angled situations where you almost have to change your pants. Many times. Zero contact.

Since I body lifted, I have had my rear bumper moved up, and the front bumper was built on the truck to accommodate the body lift, so I have no weird gaps or issues. That may be an issue with some, especially if you have a 2 piece front bumper, but if you get the kit, it comes with bumper relocation brackets so that fixes the front.

Feel free to PM me, if you want to talk to someone who has actually put a BL on a FRONTIER, and not just making assumptions based on passed experiences, or something their buddies told them.

I would also like to add, that I installed my BL with no prior experience of ever putting a BL on. With a floor jack, a 2x4 and some wrenches. No special tools required. If one would read all of Mr. Bungle's thread, then they would see where he determines that you do NOT need to remove the power steering reservoir, OR doing any welding at all. Whatsoever.
 
#15 ·
You guys realize that I'm not arguing with you, right? The whole point is that people's experiences will vary and telling them anything otherwise is a disservice.

I have yet to this point ever had the body flex enough to where the bed has come in contact with the body, and I have been in some sever angled situations where you almost have to change your pants. Many times. Zero contact.
Here are four different threads about beds making contact with the cab. It's a known problem. Running sliders seems to mitigate the problem, though some people have had varying experiences. Adding a body lift would decrease the amount of flex required for the two to make contact. http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f8/frame-flex-29066/ http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f15/frame-flex-37035/ http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f15/wtf-bed-hitting-cab-50067/ http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f8/whats-word-bed-hitting-cab-40715/

I would also like to add, that I installed my BL with no prior experience of ever putting a BL on. With a floor jack, a 2x4 and some wrenches. No special tools required. If one would read all of Mr. Bungle's thread, then they would see where he determines that you do NOT need to remove the power steering reservoir, OR doing any welding at all. Whatsoever.
I did. That's why I only listed things where he stated specifically that the instructions that came with the lift told him to. It's not safe to automatically assume that whoever is installing the lift has read his tutorial and learned all the tricks. And I said very specifically that the welding was of his own prerogative.

Feel free to PM me, if you want to talk to someone who has actually put a BL on a FRONTIER, and not just making assumptions based on past experiences, or something their buddies told them.
The logic in your statement is that a mechanic who's never worked on a Frontier couldn't possibly list potential problems common to most engines?

I see you read the word buddy in my post, though. That must be worth something.


Let’s break this down logic style like we used to in 3rd grade...

- Do most body lifts for trucks consist of spacer blocks and bolts, among other components? YES.
- Do FRONTIER body lifts consist of spacer blocks and bolts, among other components? YES.
- Can bolts seize for a variety of reasons? YES.
- Can bolts on FRONTIERS seize for a variety of reasons? YES.
- Can seized bolts break? YES.
- Can seized bolts on FRONTIERS break? YES.
- Can broken bolts require special tools to remove? YES
- Can broken bolts on FRONTIERS require special tools to remove? YES
- If you don't have a correct tool, will it take additional time to go find one? YES.
- If you don't have a correct tool for your FRONTIER, will it take additional time to go find one? YES.
- Can lift kits be delivered with parts missing? YES.
- Can lift kits for FRONTIERS be delivered with parts missing? YES.
- If parts are missing from your lift kit, will it take additional time to find replacements? YES.
- If parts are missing from your FRONTIER lift kit, will it take additional time to find replacements? YES.
- Is it possible that your truck could have been modified by a mechanic or previous owner so certain wires or hoses won't fit properly after your body lift is installed? YES.
- Is it possible that your FRONTIER could have been modified by a mechanic or previous owner so certain wires or hoses won't fit properly after your body lift is installed? YES.
- Are all trucks identical? NO.
- Is your FRONTIER identical to everyone else's? NO.
- Is it possible for things to go wrong when doing ANY work on your truck? YES.
- Is it possible for things to go wrong when doing ANY work on your FRONTIER? YES.
- Is it possible for an inexperienced person to make a mistake requiring additional time to correct? YES.
- Is it possible for an inexperienced person to make a mistake, on their FRONTIER, requiring additional time to fix? YES.
- Is it possible for any combination of the above problems to result in a significantly longer, more difficult, and more stressful body lift install? YES.
- Is it possible for any combination of the above problems to result in a significantly longer, more difficult, and more stressful FRONTIER body lift install? YES.
- Will your experience vary? YES.
- Will your FRONTIER experience vary? YES.

I'm not saying any of you are wrong. I am one person, among the millions who have installed body lifts, who has had a series of bad experiences. Does that mean everyone does? NO. Does that mean you should pretend that bad things can't happen just because they didn't happen to you? NO. Will every install go just like yours? NO. Will most of them? Yes, actually. I expect the vast majority of installs go just as smooth as yours did. But that doesn't mean they all will.

It's entirely possible I just have terrible luck. My Pathfinder was the worst of all. The lift kit (from 4x4Parts) showed up with only part of the instructions and missing two bolts (that we didn't know were missing because the parts list was in the missing instructions). We got all but two of the bolts off the body, but the last two were seized and broke when we tried to take them out. This required us to put the whole thing back together and drive to a nearby (read 30 minutes because I didn't live anywhere near the city) shop where the owner helped us extract the broken bolts (one of which was so bad we had to drill it out). About half way into installing the blocks, we discover the missing bolts. Add another hour of driving to go pick up new ones. All the blocks in, we discover that the radiator had some non-OEM hose which would no longer reach with the lift on. ANOTHER trip to the store, which is now closed... If you're keeping count, that's how a 1-2 hour install becomes a two day project in a shop. Something that COULD happen to ANY vehicle.

You can learn a lot from people's successes, but you can learn even more from their failures. I'm about to install my suspension lift in the next few weeks, and I've been way more interested in the threads where people have had problems because I WANT to know the nightmare stories. I WANT to know what can go wrong and how to overcome it so I can anticipate how I'm going to handle that situation should I find myself in it. You want to know how to do something when no problems arise, read the instructions. You want to know how to do something when everything goes wrong, ask someone who's failed and recovered more than once.
 
#16 ·
Nightmare SL

I recently added four inches of suspension lift to mine. Yes, it was a nightmare, except for cost. I got everything for less than $800: Extended brake lines, spacers, UCAs, front and rear shocks, lift blocks, AAL, and cam bolts. Just a basic leveling kit would have been less than $300 on EBay.
My nightmare began when I started tearing my front end apart. After doing research and estimating time, I figured it would take me a weekend to do everything. I was way off, primarily due to my inexperience as a vehicle mechanic. I do know my way around a vehicle, but most of my experience is with aircraft, so I had to read more stuff to make sure I knew what I was doing. It didn't help that my aircraft tools are almost all SAE... No metric, so I had to borrow several tools. It ended up taking me four days to do everything, dealing with rusted bolts, having to disassemble and reassemble the front coil overs a few times, cracking a couple of sockets, etc. Now, it probably would just take one full day to do everything. If it's just spacers and lift blocks, it would just take a couple of hours.
Despite Murphy bothering me the whole time, I would still go with a suspension lift over a body lift. My main reasoning was that I wanted ground clearance on the front end, not just looks. I don't do alot of heavy wheeling, but I do go through some rough terrain during hunting season.
It wasn't too complicated, but all variables play a big role. Like I said, I would still go with suspension any day.
 
#19 ·
Because I wanted one!! lol. after smacking my front bumper many times on Rocks, and knowing that with my one piece bumper, I would get a better approach angle. I have never had any issues with it off road, nor have I felt like it has affected my cog, maybe all the weight I've put on the bottom has helped ;-)

I've hit mine even without a BL on it. Very slight contact but contact none the less. And I had golf ball sized dings in the rear cab of my old dodge from the BL. Granted that was before the boxed frame era but still happened.
So it most certainly can and does happen.
Yeah man, I know that this has happened before, but the point is that it can happen stock, with no body lift, so saying a body lift causes this is just wrong. I'm just saying that it hasn't happened to me before or after the body lift.

You guys realize that I'm not arguing with you, right? The whole point is that people's experiences will vary and telling them anything otherwise is a disservice.
I'm going to stop the quote right there since you really like to hear (or in this case see) yourself talk.

I know that you aren't arguing, and i'd like to think that neither am I. I am just stating my personal experience and opinions on this install, that i have first hand experience with, where as you do not (on a Frontier of course). Other than Zedbra, I didn't say anyone giving their experience actually installing a BL on a Frontier, so I felt I would share my experience. Can s**t go wrong, yep. Usually it does for me. But the BL was pretty simple, and straight forward.

I won't comment on your 3rd grade logic comment, since I dropped out of elementary school in 2nd grade to take care of my baby momma, and put food on the table, so... I never got to third grade, so don't really have knowledge of 3rd grade logic, therefore since I am inexperienced with it, I choose not to comment on it (see what I did there?). Did I mention I love run-on sentences?

Good Day.
 
#21 ·
I hadn't planned on running a body lift on my truck. I have a 3" suspension lift and 33's. My new problem which changed my mind is that I invested too much money in some 17x9.5 -12 wheels which stick out a couple of inches from stock. They rub like crazy when I turn. I've done the melt mod as well as trimmed some of the metal fender. Now it doesn't rub as bad on the street, but I'm afraid when I go to Moab in May that I will have hard tire+body contact on some of the obstacles.

So, I'm installing a 2" bodylift simply to keep from wrecking my fenders any worse that they already are.

Later down the road, when I do a Titan swap, I may remove the body lift.
 
#28 ·
I'm with JayAre on this one. I started with your standard leveling kit, 2.5 in the front and 1.5 in the back. I wanted more. More suspension lift means a LOT more money. I did a DIY 2" body lift. To the person who said a weekend backyard guy wouldn't do a DIY for the first time he is wrong. I'm an accountant which makes me a cheap a--. I did it myself because I was quoted $1300 for a 2" bl and $3300 for a 6" sl. Both are insane to me. Did it myself thanks to a thread with a bumper bracket template and saved lots. Why did I do it? Because my truck looks awesome now that's why.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Well this thread garnered much more intelligent conversation than I originally thought it would.

Rather than go into a lengthy discussion of why I was asking, the most simplistic of all reasons are as follows:

1. Will allow me to put a larger tire underneath (we all know why I want that). Yes I have a SL already (OME 607s/nitrochargers/shackles), yes I will be going higher with a Titan swap and full leaf packs in about a year. My tire and wheel setup needs more clearance. Level 8 MK6 with actual 33's on it not 32.8s). These are in the works, 2 tires are stored in my mothers garage and the wheels are at my powdercoaters.

2. Overall I would like to try and keep the body as clean as possible, yes I know that isn't possible, but it is a minimal investment that can save me some grief.

I plan on taking care of the asthetics after I BL (front/rear bumper and redone sliders to match in time). However I need the hitch for the foreseeable future so that will look out of place, although I can remove when not needed.

I use my truck as a truck and for offroading mostly, it isn't my daily but right now I am using it as such as I get my daily ready for summer (belts, tensioners, H2O pump, thermostat and housing, etc, etc, plus the AC started acting up so it has to go to a shop for that).

Anyway I would like to thank each and every one of you for your response. It gave me a lot to think about and there were some very valid points.
 
#32 ·
Lol. After reading everyone's good experiences I feel even more like I've been ripped off / had horrible luck multiple times.

I had a thought over the weekend, though. On my pathfinder, the radiator was attached to the body and thus raised up when the body was lifted. It looks like the radiator on our trucks hangs pretty low, and is one of the limiting factors to the angle of the skid plate. Would a 2" body lift then (theoretically) provide an advantage that a suspension lift wouldn't, by allowing a skid plate to be installed at a shallower angle? In my head this seems like it would be advantageous, but maybe the angle isn't really that important?
 
#33 ·
Lol. After reading everyone's good experiences I feel even more like I've been ripped off / had horrible luck multiple times.
You need the one time on a Frontier to see for yourself how simple it is, then you can let it go.

As for the skid plate - it is attached to the metal insert bumper and if you don't raise that (which I didn't), then the skid plate angle doesn't change.
 
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