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Dashcam -- Legal Concerns

4K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  upflying 
#1 ·
I'm not a lawyer, just someone who has been intrigued by the number of threads for dash cams lately.

I'm curious if y'all have read up on your local laws about what can and can't be done with dash cams. A quick look brings up concerns of whether or not your own footage can be used against you (in the case where you are at fault in an accident). Also, whether or not (varies by state) you can record audio of another person w/o their consent.

I'm not pinging your dash cam installs or the idea behind them (it actually seems like a pretty good thing to me), I'm just curious if everyone is aware of the good and bad aspects.
 
#2 ·
I'm not a lawyer, just someone who has been intrigued by the number of threads for dash cams lately.

I'm curious if y'all have read up on your local laws about what can and can't be done with dash cams. A quick look brings up concerns of whether or not your own footage can be used against you (in the case where you are at fault in an accident). Also, whether or not (varies by state) you can record audio of another person w/o their consent.

I'm not pinging your dash cam installs or the idea behind them (it actually seems like a pretty good thing to me), I'm just curious if everyone is aware of the good and bad aspects.
I have a friend who is a truck driver and he mentioned this very thing.
 
#3 ·
Here in Canada you can record video/audio, secretly, as long as one of the people in the recording is aware of it.

So if I wanted to catch you saying something and record it, I could.

The law only specifies what you can do with the recording after the fact.


However, a dash cam is recording public places, not private goings-on in your bedroom. Anyone in public is fair game for photography and audio recording as the courts have determined there is no "assumption of privacy" in public places. So, my above example of recording in secret doesn't even apply.
 
#4 · (Edited)
It's actually the same in the US. That's why convenience stores can have security cameras, some gas stations have them in their pump areas to catch "drive aways" etc. Local governments in various places have gotten away with "red light" cams that take a picture of the license plates of people who run the light. When I lived in Denver there was a tollway where I had a transponder that allowed me to cruise past the toll booths. But anyone that did that without a transponder would get a ticket in the mail - after getting their plate photographed. This happened to a relative that was visiting from out of state - they tracked him down in his home state to give him his ticket. ATM's have cameras...and you have all seen in the news the stories about police officers and wearable cams.

Like it or not, Cameras are all over these days; deployed by police, local state and federal government, businesses and private citizens. Basically if you are in a public place you are deemed to have no expectation of privacy and anyone that wants to can vid you.

The question is, can your video be used against you? The answer is that yes it can. This point has already been been debated on the data obtained from a vehicle's on board systems. For example the driver claims "I lifted off the throttle and slammed on the brakes" but the car's computer says he was accelerating in the last few seconds before the crash. They would probably have to subpoena the video to force you to turn it over, but they could get it and yes, use it against you.

Edit: Also read all the recent stories about law enforcement agencies claiming the right to take your phone and demand your password. Think about our FBI director's statements on how encrypting phones somehow means you are hiding something (talking about both apple IOS and Google Android making encryption the default in their latest versions). Protecting yourself from crooks is somehow being interpreted as being a terrorist sympathizer.
 
#5 ·
...I'm curious if y'all have read up on your local laws about what can and can't be done with dash cams. A quick look brings up concerns of whether or not your own footage can be used against you (in the case where you are at fault in an accident). Also, whether or not (varies by state) you can record audio of another person w/o their consent...
.
Good questions – Ga may indeed be one of the few states having a statute prohibiting windshield cameras. I went ahead anyway thinking originally I would mount the camera on the passenger headrest, or attached to the back of my Garmin on its beanbag mount. But I think I’ll be Ok as is. If not I'll take it down.

Blocking view, distraction – My camera is completely out of view from driver perspective. I may do more to hide even the couple inches of cord. So of course, being distracted by viewing the monitor is also impossible from driver perspective.

Surveillance, recording without permission – With regard to LE my intention is to not record. If stopped or questioned I’ll immediately offer that I have a dashcam, that it is turned off, and that I’ll demo that if they wish. 20+ years ticket and traffic stop free my attitude is very much on the side of law enforcement. 99% of my driving is solo but when I do have a passenger they will be aware of the dashcam and the audio will be off. I also have no current plans to randomly post video on YouTube.

Footage used against you – My expectation is that it could be used against me if that is the truth of the matter. I thought about this when selecting a camera that had GPS but went ahead wanting the location and mph info on the recording. For some this might be a problem – for me it will not.
 
#24 ·
Good questions – Ga may indeed be one of the few states having a statute prohibiting windshield cameras. I went ahead anyway thinking originally I would mount the camera on the passenger headrest, or attached to the back of my Garmin on its beanbag mount. But I think I’ll be Ok as is. If not I'll take it down.

Blocking view, distraction – My camera is completely out of view from driver perspective. I may do more to hide even the couple inches of cord. So of course, being distracted by viewing the monitor is also impossible from driver perspective.

Surveillance, recording without permission – With regard to LE my intention is to not record. If stopped or questioned I’ll immediately offer that I have a dashcam, that it is turned off, and that I’ll demo that if they wish. 20+ years ticket and traffic stop free my attitude is very much on the side of law enforcement. 99% of my driving is solo but when I do have a passenger they will be aware of the dashcam and the audio will be off. I also have no current plans to randomly post video on YouTube.

Footage used against you – My expectation is that it could be used against me if that is the truth of the matter. I thought about this when selecting a camera that had GPS but went ahead wanting the location and mph info on the recording. For some this might be a problem – for me it will not.
NEVER offer answers to questions that weren't asked. It makes it appear like you're doing something wrong.

Clint
 
#12 ·
I use my Android smart phone in a dash mount in place of my old Garmin GPS these days. All smart phones these days can record video and there are even Apps specifically for the purpose of using the phone as a dash cam. If the phone is sitting in my dash mount I guess no one would know without getting a court order for my phone if the video recording functionality was running at the time. I would feel no obligation to tell any one if it was or wasn't either.

On the other hand many police departments are taking the view that they have the right to "search" your phone.

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/wirel...earch-your-mobile-phone-without-warrant.shtml

Just on principle they'd have to arrest me and get a court order before I would turn over my password. And my phone is encrypted too. The public statements from the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are making people taking basic precautions with their data look like criminals.
 
#9 · (Edited)
AFAIK, you can record and photograph anything in a public place. There is no expectation of privacy when you are in public. There are a bazillion surveillance cameras watching all of us all the time. IMO, I would use a dash cam to protect me as opposed to having it be used against me.
All of us drive vehicles that have black boxes (EDR) that record vehicle operation data. That data can be used against you in post-crash litigation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder
 
#34 · (Edited)
AFAIK, you can record and photograph anything in a public place. There is no expectation of privacy when you are in public. There are a bazillion surveillance cameras watching all of us all the time. IMO, I would use a dash cam to protect me as opposed to having it be used against me.
All of us drive vehicles that have black boxes (EDR) that record vehicle operation data. That data can be used against you in post-crash litigation.
Event data recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Never trust wikipedia....never ever.
Never, ever doubt me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBA75pX3TJs
 
#20 · (Edited)
Not sure why it's so hard to believe...

Do you need more examples?

Let's say you get your license suspended under the Highway Traffic Act. Then you go and drive, while suspended. Even though you were convicted under a provincial statute, the court can still order you to spend up to 6 months in jail.

I don't care if you believe me or not, but this WILL NOT become part of a criminal record. It's a provincial offence, not a criminal code offence.

Might not make sense to you, but that's how it is.

One more example, of a different variety...
Under the Mental Health Act, doctors, family members or police can recommend a psychiatric evaluation for people who may be at risk of harming themselves or others. The police can even "arrest" (though it's more of a temporary detention) you and take you to the hospital where they turn you over to the doc. If the doc deems it necessary, they can keep you in the hospital for a period of time, or they can let you go.

This will not show up in a criminal record. However, when applying for your firearms license, there are questions relating to mental health, and if a "vulnerable sector check" is required in addition to a criminal records check, any suicide or self-harm may be disclosed for a period of up to 5 years after the event. That's only if the police took you to the hospital, though, otherwise they'd have no record of it.


Again, the laws and legal system don't always make sense. Even the laws themselves can be interpreted different ways in court.

Would like some proof, or does it make sense now?
 
#30 ·
I'd review your state/country's laws for the legality of using them. In FL, as long as it doesn't interfere w/the police duties, it's legal to use them. I wouldn't go pointed recording devices in their faces or secretly record either.........probably charges wouldn't stick but could land someone a night in jail.

My primary purpose for my front and rear cams are for insurance purposes. Nothing like having an additional witness in any situation.
 
#31 ·
In the entire USA you can record public officials when they are doing their duties once you do not interfere. It's built into the First Amendment.

Google "Austin Peaceful Streets Project."
 
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