So... stainless steel brake lines...

[ToddG]

I would think that the stainless, aside from looking way better and possibly providing a better feel and better performance, would be much more durable for say off-roading. They are by design shielded on the outside.

I would love to see the data when you get it Patrick.

[HKYStormFront]

*please note i am going to say some stuff and i am not mad, just saying it*

the SS lines that i installed were much stiffer to flex than my stock rubber ones, they do bend and move freely but they don't just flop around like the stock ones do. if the stock ones do have a layer of metal braiding inside, it's not thick.

this was a "no guts, no glory" kinda thing since i was the first person to buy these from "him" to try them out. the inside diameter may be wrong, i don't know. they look to be identical in outside diameter but there's no way to know without destroying both the stock and SS lines to find out if the inside is the same.

i can say that they hooked up fine, look good, and (to me) seem to have improved my brake performance.

CT_Nismo: i have to disagree with your statement. according to my boss (a service manager no less) rubber lines normally expand (varies depending on strength, quality, car, and age) and when they expand they absorb energy from the brake fluid, which reduces the PSI at the calipers. SS lines do not give at all so there is almost no loss of energy (again, not a huge difference but some) at the caliper, make sense? (not trying to call you out, just a "this is what i was told" kinda thing)

i also agree this would be a great thing to do just for safety's sake for people who like to wheel a lot. it seemed to me that the stock rubber lines could be torn easily by flying rocks or debris and the SS lines seemed much more durable (i realize that is a debateable subject, i'm just saying...)

as for the other comments, let me do a cliff's notes: i put on the new lines, i like them, i think they were worth it. if that's not enough to convince you, cool, i just thought i'd share my opinion on it since i was the first to test them out on my truck, i won't loose any sleep if you don't buy them lol

[CT_Nismo]

[quote=HKYStormFront;511598
CT_Nismo: i have to disagree with your statement. according to my boss (a service manager no less) rubber lines normally expand (varies depending on strength, quality, car, and age) and when they expand they absorb energy from the brake fluid, which reduces the PSI at the calipers. SS lines do not give at all so there is almost no loss of energy (again, not a huge difference but some) at the caliper, make sense? (not trying to call you out, just a "this is what i was told" kinda thing)

[/quote]

I have a bad habit. I do not like to be "told." I'd rather understand the situation and formulate an opinion based on what I know and information from others.

Suppose the rubber hose is pliable and expands due to hydraulic pressure. As it expands, it stiffens and at some point will be able to sustain the full hydraulic pressure. Otherwise you will have a balloon and end up with no braking force. Filling a tire with air is very much the same phenomenon. A expanding rubber hose will reduce the speed to maximum braking pressure. This is another way of saying that the brakes are not responsive. But ultimate braking force is not affected by the expanding hose. This is because the ultimate hydraulic pressure remains the same. In a panic stop, you will stomp on the brake just as hard with any type of hose.

I think that most Frontier owners will say that the brakes are responsive. I think there are better places to use the money...such as $4.30/gal gasoline.

[bigdog]

HKY - I think it's great that you have done this first and are happy with the results. Clearly one of the benefits of the SS Brake lines is increased protection of the hoses lines while wheeling. But on the opposite side of that same coin, my research has shown, that there is an increased risk of the line bursting as a result of debris being trapped between the SS and the rubber. The problem appears to be that damage can occur to the rubber and go unnoticed and that "Since stainless-steel lines don't bulge as they age, and since the inner Teflon lining is hidden behind the braid, there's no easy way to inspect the lines for warning signs of imminent failure."

Brake Lines - NSX-Wiki is a good thread to see more details on this threat.

As for buying the lines from "him", well I guess that is a decision that you have a right to make. The good news for the rest of us is, that if we do decide to buy SS Brake lines there are other options.

Goodridge G-Stop Brakeline Kit has this kit that fits our vehicles (mine anyway) and sells for $115 for all 4 lines. Turns out Autoanything sells these too.



For 98-04 Frontys checkout Russell Street Legal Stainless Steel Brake Lines they sell for $102.55

[Devius1]

SS. lines work? Duh!
if they are REAL.

[HKYStormFront]

Originally Posted by CT_Nismo

I have a bad habit. I do not like to be "told." I'd rather understand the situation and formulate an opinion based on what I know and information from others.

Suppose the rubber hose is pliable and expands due to hydraulic pressure. As it expands, it stiffens and at some point will be able to sustain the full hydraulic pressure. Otherwise you will have a balloon and end up with no braking force. Filling a tire with air is very much the same phenomenon. A expanding rubber hose will reduce the speed to maximum braking pressure. This is another way of saying that the brakes are not responsive. But ultimate braking force is not affected by the expanding hose. This is because the ultimate hydraulic pressure remains the same. In a panic stop, you will stomp on the brake just as hard with any type of hose.

I think that most Frontier owners will say that the brakes are responsive. I think there are better places to use the money...such as $4.30/gal gasoline.

i see what you are saying and honestly don't know if you are right or not. physics state that energy, like matter, can not be created or destroyed, only displaced or changed into another form. if brake force is lost, however little, to expand the rubber lines, then by the laws of physics, lines that do not expand (SS lines) should convey more force, however little (again). i realize this mod is not for everyone. the install is a moderate difficulty at best and the "right tools" are needed to do it the right way (line wrenches, a brake flush machine helps) and i also realize that unless one is all over their brakes on a regular basis, this may not be for them. some people, are aiming to build show trucks (mine eventually will be... one day) and when a person gets to that point, they will want these, if nothing more than the bling factor. i'm just trying to post up to say that they are out there, and they work

[mike]

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

they aren't perfect however, there is more pedal travel (just a hair really) before the brakes engage (the guy who is distributing them and i agree the inside diameter may be slightly different) but once they do they definitely have more force than before.

You may have kinked the line.

[HKYStormFront]

both me and the boss checked it over repeatedly and couldn't find anything wrong (doesn't mean there isn't) and the lines are basically in the same positions the stock rubber ones were

[mike]

If the line is damage you won't be able to see it do to the steel exterior but if the line bent or twisted the Teflon wall could easily damage.
Install the your old lines and the problem should go away.

[CT_Nismo]

Originally Posted by HKYStormFront

i see what you are saying and honestly don't know if you are right or not. physics state that energy, like matter, can not be created or destroyed, only displaced or changed into another form. if brake force is lost, however little, to expand the rubber lines, then by the laws of physics, lines that do not expand (SS lines) should convey more force, however little (again). i realize this mod is not for everyone. the install is a moderate difficulty at best and the "right tools" are needed to do it the right way (line wrenches, a brake flush machine helps) and i also realize that unless one is all over their brakes on a regular basis, this may not be for them. some people, are aiming to build show trucks (mine eventually will be... one day) and when a person gets to that point, they will want these, if nothing more than the bling factor. i'm just trying to post up to say that they are out there, and they work

You are correct in the application of the conservation of energy law to this problem. When the hose is expanding, it absorbs energy (work). This must come from the hydraulic fluid. Once the hose stops expanding, no further energy is absorbed by the hose. A fully bulged hose just resists the hydraulic pressure. That pressure can is driven by the brake piston and ultimately by your foot.