Woot Ron Paul now top tier canadate!!!

[calimobber]

Well from what ive read he votes to legalize hemp. That is such a controversial drug its ridiculous. In California you can get doctors note to smoke it. I don't smoke myself but know multiple people that smoke and it doesn't effect there life or job. I can see where he is coming from, its people rights to choose to smoke. who are we to say they cant? I think the gov main reason for trying to outlaw it is, that they dont get there cut on it since its all hand to hand. Canada has some super relaxed laws about weed and it doesn't seem to be affecting there economy.

You can say smoking cigeretes is 10 times worse than weed and the gov will never stop it since they make so much money off the cig tax.

[Phil'sFrontier]

Originally Posted by calimobber

If you look at canadian crime rate, they didn't go down after gun control. Gun related deaths did but stabbing and other killing just went up. People just find new ways to kill

Ok here are some real numbers I just pulled out of an article on CBC's website...
Cities such as Quebec City(population 491,000) Vitoria(population about 330,000) have fewer than 0.7 murders per 100,000 people
Cities such as St. John's Nfld, and Trois Rivieres had such low rates Statistics Canada rated them as nil.
Toronto's murder rate was only 2.0 per 100,000 people

The most murder prone city in Canada was Edmonton with a homocide rate of 4.3 per 100,000
people, Second was Regina with 4 per 100,000 and third was a tie between Saskatoon and Winnepeg with 3.7 homocides per 100,000 people.

Compare these with American number like Washington DC with 45.8 per 100,000 and Detroit with 42 per 100,000

Now if you have numbers to back up that statement you made i'de love to see them
Seems to me if you are being reasonable you can't argue with those numbers. Now I look at them and see that yes Guns do kill people. Lots and lots of people.

here is a link ot the article if you want to read it yourself
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewa...crimesask.html

[durrell]

I'm going to direct copy and paste this from my post in the "Revolver" thread:

Here's the proof you asked for:

Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.

* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."2

* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted." 3

* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4

* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low."5

Sources (by number):

2Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., "Gun laws don't reduce crime," USA Today (May 9, 2002). See also Rhett Watson and Matthew Bayley, "Gun crime up 40pc since Port Arthur," The Daily Telegraph (April 28, 2002).

3 Gary A. Mauser, "The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales," Public Policy Sources (The Fraser Institute, November 2003), no. 71:4. This study can be accessed at http://www.fraserinstitute.org/share...sNav=pb&id=604.

4"Handgun crime 'up' despite ban," BBC News Online (July 16, 2001) at http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk...00/1440764.stm. England is a prime example of how crime has increased after implementing gun control.

5"Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low: police," AFP News (August 3, 2001); "A crime wave alarms Japan, once gun-free," The Philadelphia Inquirer, 11 July 1992.

Proof?

[Phil'sFrontier]

Originally Posted by durrell

I'm going to direct copy and paste this from my post in the "Revolver"
Proof?

OK, So you think Canadians are just nice and that's why we don't kill people a lot?

Tell me Darryl, if guns make you safe, why are there more homocides in the US, why are there more gun crimes? Why in Detroit is there a homocide rate of 42 per 100,000 and Toronto's is only 2 per 100,000??
To me this tells me that I will be safer in Toronto than in Detroit. But that's just me..

sheesh. Also I have never had to wait for health care. I call, make an appointment, see my Doctor in a day or two...No lottories(that's a good one)
When my girlfriends Dad had Cancer, he had to take needles, that in the US, would have cost him out of his pocket..$1800 a shot. 1 a day for 2 weeks. Thats $25,000 in health care coverage that was totally free. No waiting.
Im not saying our health care system is perfect, but there is something seriously wrong with a country as rich as the US with all these people with no health coverage at all. At least cover the children.

[durrell]

I think the problem is you're looking at cities. You compare 2 of America's worst cities for crime with your cities. How is that remotely fair? I post statistics on a national scale, and you want to compare Toronto with Detroit. That isn't fair.

Healthcare..I agree, ours isn't the best. But you know if the Democrats would allow us to stop handing welfare checks and food stamps out to those who are capable of working, we'd be able to afford better health care.

[calimobber]

I think there will always be people proving guns bring crime down and some proving it brings crime up

This site shows how all crime went up. Its a never ending battle

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

[sdfronty]

Originally Posted by durrell

I think the problem is you're looking at cities. You compare 2 of America's worst cities for crime with your cities. How is that remotely fair? I post statistics on a national scale, and you want to compare Toronto with Detroit. That isn't fair.

Healthcare..I agree, ours isn't the best. But you know if the Democrats would allow us to stop handing welfare checks and food stamps out to those who are capable of working, we'd be able to afford better health care.

not to get in the middle here, but please take a statistics class, durrell. you can make statistics prove just about ANYTHING you can imagine. and just because murders went up in canada, how do you know it wasn't from 2.0 per 100,000 to 2.1 per 100,000? still MUCH lower than the 42 per 100,000 of some major US cities. yet US gun crime is going down, and is now only 41 per 100,000!!! so the us is great because our crime rate is lowering and canada is bad because their crime is increasing! who needs gun control, it obviously doesn't work....

[BlackTigerSE]

Originally Posted by Phil'sFrontier

OK, So you think Canadians are just nice and that's why we don't kill people a lot?

Tell me Darryl, if guns make you safe, why are there more homocides in the US, why are there more gun crimes? Why in Detroit is there a homocide rate of 42 per 100,000 and Toronto's is only 2 per 100,000??
To me this tells me that I will be safer in Toronto than in Detroit. But that's just me..

sheesh. Also I have never had to wait for health care. I call, make an appointment, see my Doctor in a day or two...No lottories(that's a good one)
When my girlfriends Dad had Cancer, he had to take needles, that in the US, would have cost him out of his pocket..$1800 a shot. 1 a day for 2 weeks. Thats $25,000 in health care coverage that was totally free. No waiting.
Im not saying our health care system is perfect, but there is something seriously wrong with a country as rich as the US with all these people with no health coverage at all. At least cover the children.

IF the U.S. goes into a deep recession...im moving my *** to canada...im sorry...but thats they way it is...i havent really started my life yet...i still got 2 years in college left...and my major would be very helpful in canada...cuz canada is heavily treed and where theres a lot of trees theres a lot of wildlife :P...but i dont think the recession will be that bad...i think i could still find a good job if i wanted to...but it depends on pay...plus i loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee your environment...i love alaska! thank god my great great uncle bought alaska

[durrell]

Originally Posted by sdfronty

not to get in the middle here, but please take a statistics class, durrell. you can make statistics prove just about ANYTHING you can imagine. and just because murders went up in canada, how do you know it wasn't from 2.0 per 100,000 to 2.1 per 100,000? still MUCH lower than the 42 per 100,000 of some major US cities. yet US gun crime is going down, and is now only 41 per 100,000!!! so the us is great because our crime rate is lowering and canada is bad because their crime is increasing! who needs gun control, it obviously doesn't work....

Here come the personal insults.

I don't need to take a statistics class to know that he is comparing one of the most violent cities in America to his statistics just to make them look stronger.

Like you said, statistics can be "made to prove anything" and he's doing the same thing I'm doing, trying to prove his point using different statistics.

Although, wait, he did point out that Washington D.C. has one of the highest crime rates in America. Isn't it funny that Washington D.C. has also had a ban on handguns since 1976?

Say whatever you want, the numbers show that in more cases than one, enacting gun control laws has contributed to HIGHER crime rates.

[BlackTigerSE]

Originally Posted by sdfronty

not to get in the middle here, but please take a statistics class, durrell. you can make statistics prove just about ANYTHING you can imagine. and just because murders went up in canada, how do you know it wasn't from 2.0 per 100,000 to 2.1 per 100,000? still MUCH lower than the 42 per 100,000 of some major US cities. yet US gun crime is going down, and is now only 41 per 100,000!!! so the us is great because our crime rate is lowering and canada is bad because their crime is increasing! who needs gun control, it obviously doesn't work....

I'm not on anybodies side but....we do have the worlds greatest police force...recognized throughout the world as LAPD...and san francisco isnt far behind...from lapd...there on top of things too...i dont know about detroit and NYPD and the rest...but i would think that its safer to live in canada...with all the french there and being a nuetral country...and i didnt read what he said but if theres gun control that will help a little probably...but yeah...just saying! dont hate on me! lol