On what do you base the claim of higher efficiency? I'm willing to bet a fat wad of cash that an air to water intercooled supercharger will have a lower boost temperature than a turbo without any sort of intercooler at all. Granted, he will get some cooling effect from the long piping run, but nowhere close to what you'll see with an air to water setup.
A turbocharger itself will be more efficient than a Roots blower when you compare them apples to apples, sure, but you have to take into account the entire setup.
I'll be excited to see another forced induction offering for the trucks but I can pretty much guarantee a remote turbo setup isn't going to outpace the supercharger in horsepower, or dollars spent. Not to rain on the parade for anyone, of course... but I think the internal limits of this motor will be reached long, long before you get into the power range where a turbo will outperform a supercharger from an efficiency standpoint.
Im stating a turbo is more efficient and will last longer than a supercharger. Not only that, but you can actually adjust your psi on command instead of changing pulleys. Turbo lag also may be a good thing. There is no weight so if you just have monstrous tq, all you are going to do is spin. But, even with his setup, he will not have much turbo lag, and even with an intercooler, it won't make that much of a difference.
Also, his cost, he will be getting Uprev tuned which pwns over the Stillen piggyback.
So what I am saying is when you buy the SC kit, your paying more than what he is paying for a turbo setup,uprev, etc...Therefore, making my statement being more efficient and more bang for the buck.
Im stating a turbo is more efficient and will last longer than a supercharger. Not only that, but you can actually adjust your psi on command instead of changing pulleys. Turbo lag also may be a good thing. There is no weight so if you just have monstrous tq, all you are going to do is spin. But, even with his setup, he will not have much turbo lag, and even with an intercooler, it won't make that much of a difference.
Also, his cost, he will be getting Uprev tuned which pwns over the Stillen piggyback.
So what I am saying is when you buy the SC kit, your paying more than what he is paying for a turbo setup,uprev, etc...Therefore, making my statement being more efficient and more bang for the buck.
Only thing stillen may have on a STS setup would be reliability, however, stillen has not proven to be problem free yet...
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2005 Crew Cab SE 6spd-Intake, exhaust, headers, IMS, TBS and Uprev...
1985 Toyota Hilux- Check engine light, dents, 33's
Performancetrucks.net
Im stating a turbo is more efficient and will last longer than a supercharger. Not only that, but you can actually adjust your psi on command instead of changing pulleys. Turbo lag also may be a good thing. There is no weight so if you just have monstrous tq, all you are going to do is spin. But, even with his setup, he will not have much turbo lag, and even with an intercooler, it won't make that much of a difference.
Also, his cost, he will be getting Uprev tuned which pwns over the Stillen piggyback.
So what I am saying is when you buy the SC kit, your paying more than what he is paying for a turbo setup,uprev, etc...Therefore, making my statement being more efficient and more bang for the buck.
One thing that you are paying for, however, is the Stillen technical support, warranty and product backing. And for CARB OE exemption. All of those things can be very much worth the extra cash when needed.
Plus I got my kit used for less than $1800, so for me, UpRev and a set of injectors plus the original purchase price will be less. But not everyone will be in that boat, granted.
As for adjusting the boost on demand, it's not all its cracked up to be. Once you get tuned and such, it's not like you ever change the boost setting more than a PSI or so when you're out driving around. Once I get dialed in with the correct pulley diameter, I can leave it as-is without having to worry about a wastegate spring losing pressure, a boost controller getting clogged or a vacuum line getting blown off/torn/kinked.
And about the turbo lag... you can't deny the fact that it will be there to some degree. The intake piping will have to be over 8 feet long, and the tubo will be nearly the last thing in the exhaust tract. To put that in comparison, the turbo on most well-designed manifolds should be about 10 inches from the cylinder port at most; intake piping should be as absolutely short as possible. Plus it's still not intercooled, so the turbo efficiency will not be what you think it is. It will not be as good as an intercooled Roots blower, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostcustoms
Only thing stillen may have on a STS setup would be reliability, however, stillen has not proven to be problem free yet...
Not sure how everyone else has fared in that regard, but I haven't had one issue with the kit thus far. Everything seems to be reasonably well engineered and designed. The only thing I didn't like, besides the piggyback fuel controller (which is needed for CARB OE), was the placement of the water pump for the intercooler. It got in the way of my Volant cold air scoop, so I had to relocate it elsewhere. I beat the piss out of this truck and it hasn't complained yet, I'll say that much.
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2005 Frontier Crew Cab SE 4x4 AT
well b4 i do anything of the sort.....turbo/supercharged i wanna know if i can make mid 12's....... i would love too find out if she ever took it down the track w/ the charger and what her time was
Sandie does have one of the closest to stock Stillen SC trucks that posts around here. It looks like she runs pretty good from the couple clips she posted, but she cant touch 12's. I doubt she can touch 13's. From her power ratings(286hp & 262ftlbs)I would guess her to be mid 14 range. One thing I have noticed about stillen SC, maybe most SC(dont know), but they dont give very good torque gains. From brutals and sexterras dynos, they did have some nice gains in torque when Uprev tuned them. Actually thats true for even the non FI trucks though too. I think it would be cool if brutal would shed about 1000lbs. I bet he would have been in the 13's without that extra weight before his engine trouble. Heck, he might even get close to that even with all the weight when he gets his truck done.
Sandie does have one of the closest to stock Stillen SC trucks that posts around here. It looks like she runs pretty good from the couple clips she posted, but she cant touch 12's. I doubt she can touch 13's. From her power ratings(286hp & 262ftlbs)I would guess her to be mid 14 range. One thing I have noticed about stillen SC, maybe most SC(dont know), but they dont give very good torque gains. From brutals and sexterras dynos, they did have some nice gains in torque when Uprev tuned them. Actually thats true for even the non FI trucks though too. I think it would be cool if brutal would shed about 1000lbs. I bet he would have been in the 13's without that extra weight before his engine trouble. Heck, he might even get close to that even with all the weight when he gets his truck done.
LOL, shed 1,000 pounds? Easier said than done, especially if you plan on driving the truck on the street. That's a lot of stuff to lose. Plus, I'd much rather see a real street truck run 12's fully-loaded. I think it's do-able with the right tires and a good launch, especially with the engine build he's planning.
The reason the Stillen kit isn't getting great numbers is because of the tuning, for sure. Remember guys, they have a CARB OE number for that kit. It's not meant to make a bone stock truck run 12's, it's meant to give enough of a pick-me-up to make it fun to drive. No way that you could tune it lean enough with enough power to run 12's, get a CARB exemption, AND have it still be reliable. The NOx levels would be through the roof with that kind of setup.
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2005 Frontier Crew Cab SE 4x4 AT
Only thing stillen may have on a STS setup would be reliability, however, stillen has not proven to be problem free yet...
Stillens SC has blown many Titan motors up due to their instructions being wrong...I used to be a member on Club Titan and I read up on all of it...Even with their instructions being wrong, Stillen did not warranty their motors...I dont know if any Frontiers have been blown up but not many people have had them because the kit is so dang expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandToy05
One thing that you are paying for, however, is the Stillen technical support, warranty and product backing. And for CARB OE exemption. All of those things can be very much worth the extra cash when needed.
See statement above about their warranty...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandToy05
Plus I got my kit used for less than $1800, so for me, UpRev and a set of injectors plus the original purchase price will be less. But not everyone will be in that boat, granted.
True, you are a lucky one who got a deal that must will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandToy05
As for adjusting the boost on demand, it's not all its cracked up to be. Once you get tuned and such, it's not like you ever change the boost setting more than a PSI or so when you're out driving around. Once I get dialed in with the correct pulley diameter, I can leave it as-is without having to worry about a wastegate spring losing pressure, a boost controller getting clogged or a vacuum line getting blown off/torn/kinked.
When I had my 300zx twin turbo, I adjusted my psi all the time...When I went to race, it went up...When I wanted to cruise, it went down...When I wanted to have a little fun or mess with someone...well you get the point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandToy05
And about the turbo lag... you can't deny the fact that it will be there to some degree. The intake piping will have to be over 8 feet long, and the tubo will be nearly the last thing in the exhaust tract. To put that in comparison, the turbo on most well-designed manifolds should be about 10 inches from the cylinder port at most; intake piping should be as absolutely short as possible. Plus it's still not intercooled, so the turbo efficiency will not be what you think it is. It will not be as good as an intercooled Roots blower, period.
yes, there will be some lag, but with his size turbo, it will spool quickly...Youtube some sts kits and see how fast they spool...faster than you think...
LOL, shed 1,000 pounds? Easier said than done, especially if you plan on driving the truck on the street. That's a lot of stuff to lose. Plus, I'd much rather see a real street truck run 12's fully-loaded. I think it's do-able with the right tires and a good launch, especially with the engine build he's planning.
The reason the Stillen kit isn't getting great numbers is because of the tuning, for sure. Remember guys, they have a CARB OE number for that kit. It's not meant to make a bone stock truck run 12's, it's meant to give enough of a pick-me-up to make it fun to drive. No way that you could tune it lean enough with enough power to run 12's, get a CARB exemption, AND have it still be reliable. The NOx levels would be through the roof with that kind of setup.
I dont think you noticed all the stuff Brutal has on his truck. Last I heard he weighs about 5400lbs, about 1000lbs more than stock. Thats why I mentioned him loosing a 1000lbs, it would actually put him basically in stock form.
And about seeing a street truck run 12's, I think a frontier could do it without major difficulties. I think if somebody doing the mods that xterrahines or brutal is doing, preferable on a reasonably weighted truck is a great step in that direction. Hines should be in the 13's for sure when he is done. he was running dang good before he started his turbo. And I'm pretty sure a good driver(I suck at launching) could get my truck into the 13's(with better tires) and I am NA with just bolt-ons. If I ever decide to get more serious, such as cams, light flywheel, etc, 13's would be very easy. So put a good SC or turbo on a good modded frontier or xterra, 12's should be reachable. So Xterra might have a chance at 12's, especially if he dials his boost up later. And Brutal too, IFFFF he lightens his heavy as$ truck some. 350whp isn't going to get a 5400lb truck into the 12's. 13's he might do though like he is.
support? you dont think sts has a support group? they are awesome. if anything that they send you fails, send it back and they will send you a new unit no problem. im sure with a water to air intercooler you are running low temps. ill have to do some testing once i get it all done so we can compare. and lag, yeah there is a little. but remember, i have no cats. no restriction what so ever. so lag will no be that bad at all. im hoping to be around 13.5-13.1. i would die of joy if i made 12s but i dont think it would happen. we will just have to see. right now im in the 240 hp rage with this kit and setup i should gain about 80hp off of 6 psi easy
actually without trans, oil pan, and gas tank skids Im 5440 pounds on Houston Raceway track scales, the additional skids are 180 more pounds. To put it another way, my 87 Suburban with 383 stroker weighs 5500 pounds. Welded on sliders, winch(heavy) shrock bumper, roof rack basket with twin tool boxes and tools, recovery gear etc...I weigh approx 1k over Shiner who has the same truck without add ons on stk tires..
And Footy, its ok if it goes sc vs. turbo, just like Toyota, vs Nissan. I meen this is what gets stuff like this going, still very cival IMO. And nothing more than bench racing and chest beating.....SO.........lets not call it anything harsher, its not
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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you."
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