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37" Frontier Build

44K views 94 replies 21 participants last post by  ArtofSS 
#1 · (Edited)
This project is a work-in-progress. Phase 2 is completed and I am sourcing components for phase 3 which should be complete late 2014 (need my 4WD back before winter). Phase 4 will likely occur sometime in 2015.

The victim:
2010 Nissan Frontier SE, King Cab, 4x4, manual transmission, stock everything, Leer 100XL cap

(Photo as of 07/2014, end of Phase 2)

The purpose:
  • More ground clearance (snow, rough trails, curbs)
  • Aesthetic
  • I do not want gobs of lift/travel; I do not rock crawl
  • To put the critics in their place

Below is the plan which is a WIP. I will add links to the sub-threads as various components are completed.

Phase 1 (bumpers/body):
COMPLETE (sort of). This phase is not entirely necessary for the 37" tires. None-the-less, the weight of the bumpers plays into the suspension and also I need the tire carrier on the rear bumper since a 37" spare won't fit under the bed. As of writing this, I am still not sure what I will do for fenders; welding on Wrangler fenders is a leading option.
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f10/shrockworks-front-bumper-install-118841/
  • Shrockworks front bumper ($1200)
  • Harbor Freight Badland 12,000lb winch ($200)
  • Hella Rallye 4000i 9" Xenon auxiliary lights ($850) (to be completed)
  • Tactical Armor Group rear bumper with multicarrier (to be completed)
  • Hefty Fabworks rock sliders/step platforms (to be completed)
  • (?) Fender flares (to be completed)

Phase 2 (suspension):
COMPLETE (short of the air bags and bump stops). This phase gets the wheels further from the truck to clear the 37" tires (not completely, cutting will be required). I am not a fan of body lifts so I am doing this via suspension. The Titan swap has the added benefit of pushing the wheels further out which I need for tire clearance. The front differential and half-shafts are removed in this phase, restricting the truck to 2WD until the next phase. As of writing this, the air bag support for the rear and bump-stop adjustment are still to-dos.
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f26/37-build-titan-swap-suspension-147554/
  • PRG SAW Titan-swap kit ($2000)
  • Titan lower control arms ($165)
  • 5125 Bilstein shocks ($189)
  • PRG adjustable shackles (set to 2") ($129)
  • PRG 2" blocks ($89)
  • OEM LCA cam bolts (PN 54580-7S000) ($64)
  • OEM LCA cam washers (PN 54559-1Z600) ($12)
  • Anti-seize
  • Many reciprocating saw blades
  • Beer
  • Several cans of PB Blaster
  • (?) Airbag suspension (to be completed)
  • (?) Air compressor (to be completed)
  • Bump stop offset, front and rear (to be completed)

Phase 3 (drivetrain):
TBD, late 2014. This phase will introduce the Titan front differential and change the drivetrain over to 37" friendly gearing. Also, more front end components will be swapped for Titan ones, enabling Titan wheel bolt patterns without spacers; not to mention the more powerful Titan brakes.
  • Titan M205 front differential ($475 used)
  • M205 4.56 gears ($310)
  • Titan CV halfaxles ($50ea aftermarket)
  • Titan spindles and hubs
  • Titan brake calipers
  • M226 rear differential 4.56 gears ($270)
  • M205 install kit ($160)
  • M226 install kit ($160)
  • M205 29-spline yoke ($200)
  • ARB M205 air locker ($950)
  • ARB M226 air locker ($950)
  • Regearing, locker install labor at shop ($1300)
  • CV axle bolts 39606-17V0A
  • Hypertech 730106 In-Line Speedometer Calibrator Module ($200)

Phase 4 (tires):
TBD, sometime in 2015. The only thing between this and the last phase is cash. Lots and lots of cash... All body work and fender modification must be complete or occur in parallel here.
  • Hutchinson Rock Monster R17x8.5 WA-0567 wheels
  • (?) Front wheel spacers with integrated 78.1 to 106.2 hub spacer
  • (?) Rear wheel spacers with integrated 78.1 to 106.2 hub spacer
  • BFGoodrich All Terrain KO 37x12.5 tires

References:
I believe in giving credit where it is due; here are some link to reference materials and inspiration:
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46048
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/...s-2005-please-read-before-posting-here-63966/
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_1/
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_2/
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f103/frontyfans-frontier-53033/
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f8/gear-ratio-89196/
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f62/gear-ratio-37-tires-86949/
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f26/oem-vs-aftermarket-adjustable-cam-bolts-100506/
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f62/4-56-gear-swap-89050/
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48631
http://crawlernews.com/2011/12/nissan-titan-xterra-frontier-4×4-differential-gear-locker-guide/
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22826
 
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1
#3 ·
The diffs will hold, they hold on the Titan and that truck has far more horsepower than ours does. Gears are not deep enough by any stretch. Go 4.56 or don't bother with it.

Your budget is WAY too low. Go through and actually start pricing out parts, then figure out what you want to spend, then lay out your build accordingly.

The build you have planned, roughly figured on what I know you can get some of the stuff in your list for, is approx. $8500 without installation of the gears. Thats with used spindles, UCA, LCA and everything else pretty much new.

Skip the fender flares, at least any off the shelf ones. They're useless. Make your own.

If doing entire build at once, plan for a whole week. My Titan swap alone took an entire weekend of 12+ hour days and that was with a lot of work done before hand.
 
#4 ·
The only 2nd gen frontiers/xterra's that run 37's are SAS'd. That 5k budget will get eaten up fast too. New master cylinder for the the larger titan brakes, you should already have a m226(check the diff cover bolts, if there are 12 then you do), the gears will cost around 1k, you'll probably need at least 5 inches of lift to run 37's running full titan, 2.5 coilovers from prg are 1k, I'd use his or dirt kings arms which are about 600, shrock bumper is 1k, m205 is going to run about 200+ and you'll want the 3 rib design. A custom leaf pack for the rear would be best, most likely a new rear driveshaft thats longer, and tires are gonna be expensive. My 35's were around 1300.

Look at this too:
Wife's X - Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums (2005+)
 
#10 ·
Not necessarily true. I have been running true 37's for years on my a-arm 2wd with about 2.5" of lift. Also, I have found no need to run the titan master cylinder with my titan brake set up.
Don't think gears are low enough or diffs tough enough to handle 37" for long.
4:10's will do fine with moderate offroading and a light wheel/tire combination.

Check your prices bro. Your budget is way low. The bumpers and suspension are already going to be $5K and you haven't got gears or tires.
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This is completely true. I would venture to guess that any Frontier reliably fitting 37's will have a minimum of 10k into fabrication and suspension alone.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I was bored so here it is

Shrockworks front bumper1,300
Tactical Armor Group rear bumper multicarrier750
Titan upper control arms100 for oem (ebay) 600 for aftermarket
Titan lower control arms350
(?) Coilovers (X extended length, Y compressed length, Z springs, ? bumpstops)Titan swap saws 1350
Brake lines90
Titan M205 front differentialAt least 500
M205 4.10 gears310
Titan CV halfaxles180
Titan spindles and hubs (more options for wheels)200 and 200
PRG tie rod extenders90
(?) Brakes
M226 rear differential 4.10 gears380
(?) Unknown rear suspension modificationsDeaver 700
(?) Fender flares350
(?) 17" wheels (X offset, Y width) Depends but at least 600
(?) 37" tires Approximately 1400
(?) Rock sliders/step platforms400


Not to mention if you use dirtking long travel you ll have to get custom shafts made to keep your 4 wheel drive


I can't remember what it is exactly but because the wheel is still mounted to the hub make it longer doesn't actually help with rubbing where as with a spacer it moves the wheel away. So in actuality the rubbing will still be as bad if not worse

Grand total comes out 9750 give or take on used parts, stock uppers, wheel choice, and tires choice.
 
#11 ·
Thank you all for the input!

Regarding gearing; you're all right that I was off base. I think I've got 3.69 gears in my M226 with 30.6 diameter stock tires. 37" tires would put me at a 4.46 ratio; so the 4.56 gears are the better choice to keep the same driving dynamics. I'll edit the list.

As for budget, I already ordered the bumpers after hearing about the horrible lead times and delivery issues. In fact, the Shrockworks bumper was supposed to be delivered last month, haha! By my estimates, maybe I will see it in another 3 or 4. Budget is for everything else and is just a ballpark; I'll be doing all/most of the work myself. I have a motorcycle to use for transport while the truck is laid up.

Will need to do some research into solid axle suspension conversions; I had never considered that. More info to come later on my geometry calculations.
 
#13 ·
I have very similar ideas to you 37" build. I look forward to seeing your progress.
 
#15 ·
I think I've got 3.69 gears in my M226 with 30.6 diameter stock tires. 37" tires would put me at a 4.46 ratio; so the 4.56 gears are the better choice to keep the same driving dynamics.
I was incorrect according to this thread:
http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f8/gear-ratio-89196/
I have 3.538 stock gears in my SE KC 4x4 6M.

That puts me at a 4.28 ratio to keep the same driving dynamics which is closer to 4.10. However, considering the added weight of the bumpers, winch, cap, and larger tires, I think I am better off sticking with the 4.56. I already have to downshift when hitting large hills on the highway with stock everything and the cap.
 
#16 ·
Thinking about the gear situation again, I am leaning toward 4.10. I may spend more time in 5th gear, but having the option to get better economy in 6th gear when I don't need the power strikes me as a good option to have. I just don't know.

Also, any concerns with running 4.10 on stock 30.6" tires? Doing the suspension, body cutting, wheels, tires, and fender extensions all simultaneously would be a severe undertaking. It'd be great if I could do the suspension next (will need to do the gear swap at the same time) and complete the other steps later.

Meanwhile, I need to figure out what I need to do for rear suspension. The Titan swap is next on the list due to the increased weight of the Shrockworks bumper and winch. Need to figure out what I am doing for coilovers as well.
 
#17 ·
I have learned to over lower my gears.
So if I need 4.10's, go 4.56, etc.
Usually 33's require 4.10's, 35's need 4.56 and any larger go 4.88's to 5.13's.
(not sure of Nissan diff gear availabilities...)
I notice Nissan folks tend not to lower their gears enough IMO... (for good off road low range ratios)
Seems the Nissan 4.0 powers through pretty good though.

My last two 4x4's I had 33's w/4'56's & 33's w/4.88's. Its nice to be able to 'sort of' pull your top gear. Its also nice to have a low 1st gear (by over lowering).
Its not going to hurt having say, 4.56's with stock sized tires (for a while).
Just stay away from freeway speeds.
You will appreciate the better acceleration the 4.56's will offer you with 37's.
Heavy tires and poor aerodynamics will suck power!
There is no such thing as a light 37" tire.
And I would radius my fenderwells going with that size of tire so I could minimize lift..

Good luck! ..Cha ching! Gotta pay to play.
 
#18 ·
if your manual go 4.56 if your auto 4.10's are fine however its gonna be tough to fit 37's . the issue your goin to run into is the pinch seam on the cab , i dont know if you can clearance it enough to not rub at full lock
here is my wife's truck i built for her , this is with the dana 60 pushed forward 2" and we are still close to the pinch seam . i haven't needed to clearance it yet but haven't had it offroad yet either
running 37's and about 7" of lift with 4.10 and auto
 
#19 ·
Looks awesome Penski61!

What do you mean by the pinch seam?

I hesitate to post these as the model still needs a lot of work and I don't have enough time to adequately explain everything right now. Regardless, here are some images of my rough model:

Stock Fronty:


37" Fronty with Titan swap:


Stock wheel clocked to 40 degrees (I eyeballed it; does anyone know the true full steer wheel angle?):


37" Titan swap clocked wheel:


Areas on truck that will likely need to be cut away for 37" tire clearance:
 
#20 ·
My front end is sagging from the weight of the Shrock bumper and winch. Onto the suspension!

My plan:
  1. Get PRG SAW Titan swap kit and Titan lower control arms.
  2. Install; retain stock spindles, hubs, and wheels; adjust SAW coilovers to get level with stock rear (not sure if this is possible; may need to lift the rear at this point).
  3. Remove the front drive shafts and differential.
  4. Run as a 2WD until I get cash for the next phase.

The next phase:
  1. Get M205 diff, 4.56 (or 4.10; undecided) gears for front and back, Titan halfshafts, Titan spindles, Titan hubs, unknown brakes, temporary wheel adapters.
  2. Install; retain stock wheels; re-enable 4WD.
  3. Run with 30.6" tires until I get cash for the last phase (may not be feasible; will need to be able to ride the highway; need to calculate my RPM with this kind of gearing).

The last phase:
  1. Get new wheels, 37" tires, rear suspension shackles, rear wheel adapters, and unknown fender flares.
  2. Adjust the SAWs to give lift needed for 37s; install shackles in rear; adjust bumpstops; install rear wheel spacers to use Titan bolt pattern and space the rear wheels to the same track as the Titan swapped front; hire shop to cut out fenders and weld fender flares.
  3. Enjoy the ride.

Thoughts?
 
#21 ·
I have the same truck but an 06,
4.56 definitely for a manual. I wish I had lower gears for my six speed.
I didn't do the Titan spindles hubs or brakes. But just did everything else. I'm on 35's. with the dirt king mid travel kit. And 2"BL and I think I may be able to get some 37's on but they gonna rub. So maybe with the Titan spindles I think you may be able to do it. Rear fenders will have to be cut. Also my front fenders are trimmed. For the 33" tire mod.


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#23 ·
Titan and frontier spindles are the same, so no clearance improvements. Just a little beefier, different hub and caliper mounting machining, and the titan steering arm is a touch farther out.
 
#22 ·
If you are going to re-gear, space, and re-pattern to titan. Find a popped titan rear, your tearing it apart any ways, your rear is not going to like being spaced way out there. Titan front, you will need rotors, calipers, pads. If you end up with the newer spindles you will need to run 18" wheels. The problem with cheap tires is they are freaking heavy, so your tire budget is low at 17's and not even close a 18"s I run 4.56 gears with 35's and a spool, and get better mileage then I did with stock and 33's.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Not a fan of body lifts; I just don't see the point if I can effect the same lift via suspension and bumpstops without the awkward body displacement. Correct me if I am wrong here.

I ran some calculations on gearing. Unfortunately ClubFrontier does not support HTML tables so I will just have to dump it in lists:

Ratio:
3.536 (stock)
4.10
4.56

Earliest shift into 6th gear (mph):
50 (30.6" tires)
52 (37" tires)
47 (37" tires)

RPM at 70mph:
2000 (30.6" tires)
1917 (37" tires)
2133 (37" tires)

This has me leaning to 4.10 gears. Recall I am not rock crawling and do not need gobs of torque. This is my daily driver and the higher gears somewhat defeat the purpose of the 6-speed transmission in the first place (low RPM on the highway). Feel free to debate me here.

What is the purpose of a Titan rear swap? To effect the larger track width to match the front without spacers? Seems like a ton of work considering the spacers in the rear do not pose much risk? Will there be suspension complications? Don't see any info on CF on rear suspension swaps, just front. My proposed rear suspension shackles are not going to get me the lift I need so I need to research other options. I do not want to stiffen up the rear end so adding leafs does not strike me as a good idea.

BTW, I've seen what may have been a typo alluding to putting an M226 in as a front diff. I imagine custom work was involved? Are there other options for a front diff in a Titan swap other than the M205?

I can't find any info on the newer Titans requiring R18 wheels. What am I missing here? My preliminary wheel/tire choices:

Hutchinson Rock Monster R17x8.5 WA-0567 (for Toyota, but has 6x5.5 bolt pattern and M12 lug size; hub bore will be in clearance; not entirely certain these will work with the Titan swap on the Frontier)
Rock Monster Wheels - Products
BFGoodrich All Terrain KO
All-Terrain T/A KO | BFGoodrich Tires

I know the total is racking up here but I never had a solid budget. Even so, I am looking at ~$3K in suspension, ~$3.4K in wheels/tires. Not sure what I am doing for brakes and rear suspension yet but I am still likely in 4 figures. A lot depends on what I do for fender flares as custom could push the $ up there. I figure I'll wait for the fix-it-ticket : )

Any suggestions on Titan swap compatible brakes that will conquer 37" tires?
 
#26 · (Edited)
UPDATE:

I need to do more research to understand rear leaf spring suspension; adding leaves may not increase the stiffness when shackles and blocks are involved. Ultimately what I want to do (in order of importance):

  • Lift ~3.5" to clear 37" tires (maybe more, depends on how much I can cut; recall I want minimal lift)
  • Maintain load capacity
  • Improve unloaded ride quality (I find stock to be too stiff unloaded and this is where I do most of my driving)
  • Minimize modifications

Note that minimizing cost is not on the list. So many replies have been stressing budget which is not a top priority. I expect some sarcastic responses costing $10K+ just for the rear suspension from this comment but I think you all understand me here (insane costs are precluded by the minimal modifications part).

Adding air bags in the rear may get me improved ride quality while unloaded (ability to soften the leaves for when unloaded, then stiffen as needed when loaded); I am researching what is involved. In this scenario, I'd soften the rear leaves from stock and add air bags to allow for a range of stiffness up to stock equivalent (or even stiffer). My plan for a spare tire carrier on the rear bumper will open up some space under the bed for additional components (such as an air compressor and maybe an auxiliary fuel tank to compensate for mpg loss).
 
#27 ·
I just don't see your going to clear 37 inch tires with 3.5 inches of lift. It all seems super ambitious why are you so set on running that size tire? A 35 is still massive and even the few that do run that size have had issues. A Titan swap up front isn't going to fix your problem I have one and I still rub 33s with close to 3.5 inches. The only way I see you getting close to this is with a 5 inch drop bracket or a fully custom front end and fiber glass like terribleone or penskis solid axle. You'd probably have to cut your fender all the way off but who knows if it will still rub the frame.

As for the rear look into a Deaver spring race pack from prg or alcan. They'll make it however stiff or soft as you want to match whatever lift height you end up with



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#31 ·
37's for a daily driver? ...Ok, if thats what you want to do.

Not so limited budget? ...Ok.

IMO I would start with a pro fender radius job (or sectioning), hot rod style. Radius 1" -1 1/2" (netting 3" increase at the front and rear points. Mucho brazing involved..
Match up your inner fender with plastic sheet and rivets ala Bushwacker cut-out flares.
There are a few places than can do straight axle swaps if you don't want to tackle it yourself. That would net you better crawling suspension.

IMO independent is better at go fast off road and straight axle is better for go slow crawling.

Maybe follow a que from penski61 as he looks to have a clean set-up.
 
#33 ·
He said it is just for ground clearance and aestetics. Doesnt rock crawl.Andrew is right.It has to be hard on the drive train.Heck ,I run 35's on my Dodge with 4:33's and over 400 hp and 600 plus lbs. of torque.Can't even imagine putting 35's let alone 37's on my Frontier.With stock gearing,I don't even want to run 265/75/16's.
 
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